For all you "20 ampers"

[bikeindy]

All you guys who just can't see your way to using 15 amp circuits.


How many of you own and operate a business?
Manage an EC business?
Do estimating and get the work for an EC?

 

[emahler]

All you guys who just can't see your way to using 15 amp circuits.


How many of you own and operate a business?
Manage a n EC business?
Do estimating and get the work for an EC?

pay the bills?

 

[peter d]

My kind of topic.

My guess would be "very few." As an employee, it's very easy to spend money when it's not your own.

 

[e57]

I've worked for many in the 20's only mind-set. They have their reasons. So do I depending on the circumstances and the load.... Cans might get 15, track might get 20. Commercial all 20's, if for only the sake of re-purposing them.....

 

[quogueelectric]

All you guys who just can't see your way to using 15 amp circuits.


How many of you own and operate a business?
Manage a n EC business?
Do estimating and get the work for an EC?

Here is one. Code is the minimum dont particularly like 14 wire unless it is lightly loaded. Next question. Do the least amount of quality and the least amount of materials and the least amount of work is not how I ride. I use it when I have to to get a job from a gc looking for bottom of the barrel. You tell me right now what the cost difference is for 12 as opposed to 14 for a 2000 sq ft house. I use 14 when customer wants bare minimum I prefer 12 if the customer can afford it. You think you are reinventing the wheel here.

 

[peter d]

. Do the least amount of quality and the least amount of materials and the least amount of work is not how I ride.

Sorry, but using #14 does not reduce the quality of a job. But you apparently don't believe that, so I'm preaching to a brick wall here.

 

[celtic]

I had been an all 20 man for a number of years.
Some guy who has a bunch of banned user names helped me see the error of my ways.
Now it's all 14 unless code requires otherwise; the print/engineer is explicit in his reasoning; or the owners/GC are explicit....in any case, if it's to be upsized the price will reflect that.

BTW, with 14 backstabbing is possible and very likely to be a part

 

[jaylectricity]

Sorry, but using #14 does not reduce the quality of a job. But you apparently don't believe that, so I'm preaching to a brick wall here.

I've seen entire apartments supplied with one 15 amp circuit. Now that may not be desirable, but I have no problem running 15 amp circuits for living rooms and lighting.

Right now I have a computer, two sound mixers, DSL modem, printer, monitor, speakers, musical keyboard, bass amplifier, DVD player, VCR, cable box, stereo, television, XBox, lamp, and fan on a single 15 amp circuit. I've had them all on at the same time allowing for many people to entertain themselves in various ways and have never had a problem.

I agree with you peter d.

 

[stickboy1375]

20 amp guys are just too stuck in their ways, its impossible to convince them otherwise... which I dont really care, just dont tell me how great you think 20 amp is over 15...

 

[mdshunk]

...just dont tell me how great you think 20 amp is over 15...

The main difference between the 20 ampers and the 15's is 5 amps.

 

[jaylectricity]

You tell me right now what the cost difference is for 12 as opposed to 14 for a 2000 sq ft house.

It's not just the cost of materials...it's the extra labor to deal with the 12 wire. If you have to make up every single box with 12 wire it takes longer and wears down the workers faster. Plus you have to account for box fill. So you have to buy deeper boxes or have more box locations which is also more labor.

14 wire is for some things, 12 wire is for others, 10 is for a few things, etc...

 

[stickboy1375]

The main difference between the 20 ampers and the 15's is 5 amps.

Or a mere 600 watts... however you want to look at it. So to use 12awg for 600 watts just blows my mind, the extra money in copper, & labor turns me off.

 

[peter d]

I've seen entire apartments supplied with one 15 amp circuit.

Me too, I've rewired a bunch of old apartments that were like that, usually the ancient BX or K&T that served the entire apartment. I'm sure you see this all the time as you're from New England too.

Usually what I see is that the only other circuits might be for the furnace, and maybe if someone was smart they added another circuit for the kitchen counter or fridge, but not very often.

 

[celtic]

20 amp guys are just too stuck in their ways, its impossible to convince them otherwise...

That's not true...they just need the right teacher (see #7)

 

[bikeindy]

Here is one. Code is the minimum dont particularly like 14 wire unless it is lightly loaded. Next question. Do the least amount of quality and the least amount of materials and the least amount of work is not how I ride. I use it when I have to to get a job from a gc looking for bottom of the barrel. You tell me right now what the cost difference is for 12 as opposed to 14 for a 2000 sq ft house. I use 14 when customer wants bare minimum I prefer 12 if the customer can afford it. You think you are reinventing the wheel here.

I can't tell you what the cost difference is between 12 and 14 on a 2000SF house till you tell me how many receptacles and lights there are. I don't wire homes that small, and it is likely i will pay more in materials doing 14 than the way you do 12, I may have many more home runs than you and they cost money, my point is a well designed system run in 14 can be better than one run in 12. 12 takes more time in labor and is more difficult to work with i use it where I have to for design and code. 14 wire is not the least amount of quality it is the same material as 12 wire it just carries a smaller load. pulling 2 homeruns of 14 gets you more power and is twice the work so using 14 is not the least amount of work. It is about designing a good electrical system for the home. The wheel has been reinvented over 2000 times in the last century and I am not a wheelsmith I am an Electrician.

 

[ike5547]

The main difference between the 20 ampers and the 15's is 5 amps.

Can't argue with that.

 

[emahler]

The main difference between the 20 ampers and the 15's is 5 amps.

until you go over 3 hrs...then it's only 4 amps

 

[peter d]

Haskins, where are you when we need you????

 

[Tiger Electrical]

I usually install 1/2" emt and 12 ga stranded for receptacles. I don't see any labor difference rough or final. It's all figured in the bid, so using 12 ga isn't coming out of my pocket. I've heard a few complaints about vacuum cleaners tripping breakers over the years & decided that extra 5 amps would be nice. It's not my religion & I'm not trying to convert anyone. I also only install QO and use mostly P&S. If I have warranty issues with any materials I look for something else that will last for obvious reasons. If the rest of the world uses 14 ga, Homeline & backstabs it doesn't bother me a bit.

Dave

 

[emahler]

I usually install 1/2" emt and 12 ga stranded for receptacles. I don't see any labor difference rough or final. It's all figured in the bid, so using 12 ga isn't coming out of my pocket. I've heard a few complaints about vacuum cleaners tripping breakers over the years & decided that extra 5 amps would be nice. It's not my religion & I'm not trying to convert anyone. I also only install QO and use mostly P&S. If I have warranty issues with any materials I look for something else that will last for obvious reasons. If the rest of the world uses 14 ga, Homeline & backstabs it doesn't bother me a bit.

Dave

well heck, when you're running pipe, what difference does the wire cost make?

#12 stranded is easy to work with...#12 romex will wear you down....especially when you get old