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Directions for bonding water heater piping please?

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    Directions for bonding water heater piping please?

    Hello all.....

    trying to locate where it says to bond the cold to hot water at a water heater.

    looking at 250.104

    (1) mentions sizing it to table 250.66............ (but not sure that article is addressing a water heater??)

    I've seen the jumper to be #8................ I've seen and do #6..................I've also even seen #4..


    Where does it say it needs to be bonded and at what size conductor...??

    Thank you
    " I'm at a crucial part of my painting "...........Monika Danneman

    #2
    interesting.....did a search and doesn't seam to be there.....some actually argue bonding to be a violation......will continue reading
    " I'm at a crucial part of my painting "...........Monika Danneman

    Comment


      #3
      I don't think you will find anything about this in the NEC.

      I do it 'just because' and have found that using #4 is fine. Just how much money is being saved by using a foot of #8 vs. #4?

      Some say that electric heaters benefit from being bonded due to electrolysis.
      Cheers and Stay Safe,

      Marky the Sparky

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by ritelec View Post
        Hello all.....

        trying to locate where it says to bond the cold to hot water at a water heater.

        looking at 250.104

        (1) mentions sizing it to table 250.66............ (but not sure that article is addressing a water heater??)

        I've seen the jumper to be #8................ I've seen and do #6..................I've also even seen #4..


        Where does it say it needs to be bonded and at what size conductor...??

        Thank you
        It does not SPECIFICALLY state a hot/cold bond.

        I for one call them two systems. Many here disagree with me.

        So you only need to bond if your AHJ considers them separate.
        Inspector MikeĀ®
        ESI

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by jxofaltrds View Post
          It does not SPECIFICALLY state a hot/cold bond.

          I for one call them two systems. Many here disagree with me.

          So you only need to bond if your AHJ considers them separate.

          It's says that the metal water pipes are to be bonded. With the really old water heaters there was a good mechanical connection at the water heater because of brass fittings. The newer fitting are considered to be insulated or seperate as you say so a bonding jumper would be needed to povide a good mechanical connection.

          With the new pressure reduction valves you have the same problem and also with repairs done with PVC on a metal piping system.

          In my opinion you are required to have a good mechanical connection (continuious metal pipe) or a bonding jumper to make sure all pipe is bonded.

          I find it easier just to bond the darn thing at the water heater and pressure reduction valve and remove all doubt. well, until a plumber comes along and removes the jumper and doesn't replace it.
          The 95% of people that you can't trust give the other 5% a bad name.

          Comment


            #6
            I think the posters above have done a good job describing things so I will just add a bit.

            In my opinion there is no requirement to bond specifically at the water heater if the hot and cold are already bonded together by virtue of laundry valves, tub and shower valves etc.

            That said sometimes things are not worth a fight so a couple of ground clamps and short section of wire keeps the inspector from asking questions.

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you...
              " I'm at a crucial part of my painting "...........Monika Danneman

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by iwire View Post
                I think the posters above have done a good job describing things so I will just add a bit.

                In my opinion there is no requirement to bond specifically at the water heater if the hot and cold are already bonded together by virtue of laundry valves, tub and shower valves etc.

                That said sometimes things are not worth a fight so a couple of ground clamps and short section of wire keeps the inspector from asking questions.
                All great points, iwire. And spot on about just doing it; it's really not worth the fight.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by gadfly56 View Post
                  . . . spot on about just doing it; it's really not worth the fight.
                  [COLOR=#e6e6fa] ......................
                  [/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]
                  Traditions, traditions. Without our traditions, our lives would be as shaky as... as... as a fiddler on the roof!
                  [/COLOR]
                  Another Al in Minnesota

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by iwire View Post
                    I think the posters above have done a good job describing things so I will just add a bit.

                    In my opinion there is no requirement to bond specifically at the water heater if the hot and cold are already bonded together by virtue of laundry valves, tub and shower valves etc.

                    That said sometimes things are not worth a fight so a couple of ground clamps and short section of wire keeps the inspector from asking questions.
                    I agree, here in NJ without a bonding jumper at the HWH you will almost always get a red failed sticker. Just seems to be the way the State has chosen to enforce the bonding requirment that you've mentioned.
                    Rob

                    Moderator

                    All responses based on the 2017 NEC unless otherwise noted

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by al hildenbrand View Post
                      [COLOR=#e6e6fa] ......................
                      [/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]Traditions, traditions. Without our traditions, our lives would be as shaky as... as... as a fiddler on the roof![/COLOR]
                      Wow, brought back memories. Did that show back in high school.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by gadfly56 View Post
                        Wow, brought back memories.


                        Originally posted by infinity View Post
                        . . . here in NJ without a bonding jumper at the HWH you will almost always get a red failed sticker.
                        I have never worked in an area where I have experienced a fail for the lack of a water heater piping bond.

                        I've seen Hot to Cold bonding, in the course of my work, that has been decades old, but that's it.

                        The longevity of this NON Code practice is mystifying to me.
                        Another Al in Minnesota

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by al hildenbrand View Post




                          I have never worked in an area where I have experienced a fail for the lack of a water heater piping bond.

                          I've seen Hot to Cold bonding, in the course of my work, that has been decades old, but that's it.

                          The longevity of this NON Code practice is mystifying to me.
                          Well, the Code is a bare minimum. I don't see the longevity of an above bare minimum practice to be at all mystifying, actually it's what I expect in a real skilled trade.

                          That being said, I don't think anyone should fail because of not doing it.
                          Cheers and Stay Safe,

                          Marky the Sparky

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by K8MHZ View Post
                            That being said, I don't think anyone should fail because of not doing it.
                            That's just it, in a nut shell.

                            I have an old friend who is an independent home inspector in the seven county metro area I'm in, and he has worried this "bone" of whether to write up homes without water heater and water softener piping bonds. . . The topic has come up several times over the past years.

                            It seems that there is foment in the HI discussions, amongst themselves, to interpret this NON Code tradition as a safety hazard if the bond is not present.

                            In my opinion, this is creating a whole new body of unenforceable Code.
                            Another Al in Minnesota

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Tradition Fiddler on the roof. Too funny
                              " I'm at a crucial part of my painting "...........Monika Danneman

                              Comment

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