200A Service Ground/Bond

[jawbox]

Does this look right?

 

[celtic]

Why is the neutral bonded 2x?

#4 to rod...why?

 

[chris kennedy]

Use PVC for the GEC, or use a bond bushing on both ends.

 

[jawbox]

Don't you need to bond the conduit both ends between the meter can and panel? Using rigid nipple.

PVC is not allowed in my area. Hence rigid to ground rods and water meter.

I can use #6 to the ground rods?

 

[KevinVost]

Where's the service disconnect? Why are there two locations where the neutral is bonded to the ground? Would the water pipe/meter qualify as a grounding electrode (250.52 A 1), and if it does, does the single rod meet the 25 ohm requirement or where is the second rod? (250.53 D 2) & (250.56) If the main bonding jumper is a screw, the grounding electrodes should terminate at the point where the main bonding screw is installed (250.30 A 3) (The GEC from the rod would terminate at the same point as the GEC from the water pipe).

 

[jawbox]

More like this?

The disconnect would be where the two hot bus bars are located (just not shown on sketch)

 

[chris kennedy]

Don't you need to bond the conduit both ends between the meter can and panel? Using rigid nipple.

PVC is not allowed in my area. Hence rigid to ground rods and water meter.

I can use #6 to the ground rods?

If your using RMC as a raceway for your GEC you need to comply with 250.64(E).

250.64(E) Enclosures for Grounding Electrode Conductors.

Ferrous metal enclosures for grounding electrode conductors shall be electrically continuous from the point of attachment to cabinets or equipment to the grounding electrode and shall be securely fastened to the ground clamp or fitting. Nonferrous metal enclosures shall not be required to be electrically continuous. Ferrous metal enclosures that are not physically continuous from cabinets or equipment to the grounding electrode shall be made electrically continuous by bonding each end of the raceway or enclosure to the grounding electrode conductor. Bonding shall apply at each end and to all intervening ferrous raceways, boxes, and enclosures between the cabinets or equipment and the grounding electrode. The bonding jumper for a grounding electrode conductor raceway or cable armor shall be the same size as, or larger than, the enclosed grounding electrode conductor. Where a raceway is used as protection for a grounding electrode conductor, the installation shall comply with the requirements of the appropriate raceway article.

 

[roger]

Here is an illustration of what Chris was referring to.

Roger

 

[chris kennedy]

Sorry.........

 

[jawbox]

So the second sketches would be ok?

Panel inside house supplemental ground running through to the meter can then to exterior ground rods, bonding conduits along the way.

 

[roger]

Your first sketch is fine per the NEC, just bond the GEC to the bottom end of the RMC, the top is bonded with the locknuts.

Roger

 

[infinity]

Your first sketch is fine per the NEC, just bond the GEC to the bottom end of the RMC, the top is bonded with the locknuts.

Roger

Agreed, and get rid of the bonding bushing and jumper on the 2" in the panel enclosure.

 

[jawbox]

don't you need the bushings if the conduit is connected to a concentric knockout?

 

[roger]

don't you need the bushings if the conduit is connected to a concentric knockout?

No, but this is a common misconception.

Roger

 

[infinity]

don't you need the bushings if the conduit is connected to a concentric knockout?

The raceway contains service entrance conductors, therefore it's a service raceway and requires only to be bonded on one end.

 

[jawbox]

Still having a hard time getting my head around this.

Would either of these be correct

Option #1
Meter Can

Panel

or

Option #2
Meter Can

Panel

 

[infinity]

Still having a hard time getting my head around this.

Would either of these be correct

Option #1
Meter Can

Panel

or

Option #2
Meter Can

Panel

Now you have a problem with the first drawing in option #1. You've changed the #4 to the rod to a #6 and used that to bond the service raceway. The service raceway requires a bonding jumper based on 250.66 which mean that it needs to be a #4.

 

[jawbox]

So option #1 using #4 in lieu of the #6 would be correct? I'm assuming the ground to the water main would still need to be #4.

 

[hurk27]

No, but this is a common misconception.

Roger

What about 250.92(A) it is the requirements of Bonding of Services, see (3)
and 250.92(B) is Method of Bonding at the Service see the note under (4)

At a few of the Western sectionals I have been to, this question was brought up more then once and both times the CMP's and UL said the concentric KO's were not listed for grounding of raceways protecting service conductors or GEC's, and cited the above code sections each time.

 

[infinity]

What about 250.92(A) it is the requirements of Bonding of Services, see (3)
and 250.92(B) is Method of Bonding at the Service see the note under (4)

At a few of the Western sectionals I have been to, this question was brought up more then once and both times the CMP's and UL said the concentric KO's were not listed for grounding of raceways protecting service conductors or GEC's, and cited the above code sections each time.

Concentric KO's would mean that you cannot use bonding locknut's to bond service raceways. A bonding jumper would need to be used with a bonding bushing. If you had a KO punched for the size of the raceway then you could use a bonding locknut. 250.92(B)(4).