200 amp Pole Service

[catskills]

An electrician installed a 200 amp Square D combo panel with feed thru lugs and 8 additional circuits on a pole. There is a 200 amp disconnect that is part of this combo unit. From there he ran 3 wire approximately 150feet to the house from the feed thru lugs on the combo unit at the pole, entered thru the wall of the house, and went directly to a 200 lugs only 42 circuit panel. He drove ground rods at the house as well.There is no main circuit breaker in the house panel.

I believe there needs to be a main circuit breaker in that panel at the house or a 4th wire run from the combo unit on the pole to be code compliant. Am I correct?

Any thoughts or references to the code would be greatly appreciated. We are using the 2002 code here.

 

[augie47]

225.32 would require you to have a disconnect at the house.
The decision on the 4th wire in the '92 Code is determined per 250.32. It might be best just to review that section.

 

[raider1]

There needs to be a disconnecting means at the home in accordance with 225.31 and 225.32.

As far as running an equipment grounding conductor with the feeder to the home, provided that all the requirements of 250.32(B)(2) are met you don't need to run an equipment grounding conductor to the home.

Chris

 

[jcole]

Apon some inspectors interpertation of 230.91, the disconnect on the house requires overcurrent protection too.

 

[raider1]

Apon some inspectors interpertation of 230.91, the disconnect on the house requires overcurrent protection too.

If the service disconnecting means at the pole has overcurrent protection, the feeder disconnect required by 225.31 at the home would not require overcurrent protection.

Chris

 

[jcole]

If the service disconnecting means at the pole has overcurrent protection, the feeder disconnect required by 225.31 at the home would not require overcurrent protection.

Chris

I agree 100%. Notice I said some inspectors.

At this time I have 800A breaker feeding a structure from a drawout switchgear 100ft away. Only disconnect was installed in structure. Failed because no OCP. I argued it was a feeder to no avail. But I am contesting.

 

[augie47]

not knowing the facts, but you say 800 amp breaker and drawout swichgear it sounds like you would be in an area that would qualify under the exception to 225.32

 

[jcole]

not knowing the facts, but you say 800 amp breaker and drawout swichgear it sounds like you would be in an area that would qualify under the exception to 225.32

According to that I wouldnt even need a disconnect. Thanks Augie.

 

[catskills]

There needs to be a disconnecting means at the home in accordance with 225.31 and 225.32.

As far as running an equipment grounding conductor with the feeder to the home, provided that all the requirements of 250.32(B)(2) are met you don't need to run an equipment grounding conductor to the home.

Chris

I believe 225. 31 and 225.32 have been met and are covered by the main service disconnect out on the pole. I am not seeing where 225.31 or 225.32 require the disconnect to be at the house

 

[raider1]

I believe 225. 31 and 225.32 have been met and are covered by the main service disconnect out on the pole.

I disagree, the disconnecting means required by 225.31 and 225.32 is required to be installed either on the outside of the home or inside the home nearest the point of entrance of the conductors.

There is an exception that permits the disconnect to be remotely located but this exception does not apply to a home.

Chris

 

[catskills]

I disagree, the disconnecting means required by 225.31 and 225.32 is required to be installed either on the outside of the home or inside the home nearest the point of entrance of the conductors.

There is an exception that permits the disconnect to be remotely located but this exception does not apply to a home.

Chris

I agree with you chris but the electrician doesnt see it that way. he is interpreting "the disconnecting means shall be installed either inside or outside the of the building or structure served or where the conductors pass through the building or structure" as the disconnect on the pole is outside the building so he has met code.

I have a problem with a panel installed in ahouse with the main service disconnect 150' away. and I would love to prove him wrong

 

[raider1]

I agree with you chris but the electrician doesnt see it that way. he is interpreting "the disconnecting means shall be installed either inside or outside the of the building or structure served or where the conductors pass through the building or structure" as the disconnect on the pole is outside the building so he has met code.

If that were the case then there would be no reason for the exceptions to 225.32.

Chris

 

[JohnJ0906]

I agree with you chris but the electrician doesnt see it that way. he is interpreting "the disconnecting means shall be installed either inside or outside the of the building or structure served or where the conductors pass through the building or structure" as the disconnect on the pole is outside the building so he has met code.

I have a problem with a panel installed in ahouse with the main service disconnect 150' away. and I would love to prove him wrong

Ask him to read the second sentence of 225.32 - "The disconnecting means shall be at a readily accessible location nearest the point of entrance of the conductors."
I don't think 150' qualifies as "nearest the point of entrance of the conductors." :smile:

 

[Jim Shorts]

But, the code does not mandate that the disconnecting means be attached to that structure. All it requires is for it to be outside. If you read the paragraph closely, the second sentence actually mandates that the disconnecting means be located inside. How can you be nearest the point of entrance of the conductors if you are outside? Just another example of a poorly written code section. Compare the wording to the requirements for services in 230.70(A)(1) and you can see the difference.

 

[JohnJ0906]

But, the code does not mandate that the disconnecting means be attached to that structure. All it requires is for it to be outside. If you read the paragraph closely, the second sentence actually mandates that the disconnecting means be located inside. How can you be nearest the point of entrance of the conductors if you are outside? Just another example of a poorly written code section. Compare the wording to the requirements for services in 230.70(A)(1) and you can see the difference.

Jim, how can you interpret "nearest" to mean "inside"? I can be just as near the point of entrance outside as well as inside, as well as the fact that the first sentence of 225.32 says "Inside or outside"

However, I do agree with this:

But, the code does not mandate that the disconnecting means be attached to that structure

 

[Jim Shorts]

The word nearest is not what I'm talking about. It's the phrase "point of entrance". You have not entered that building if you are still outside, but I can see the point that you would be near the point of entrance even if you were outside.