Elec. work on your permit you didn't do?

[Palmbay]

Would like some opinions as to how to handle this situation.

I am permited by city to rewire a kitchen in 6 story condo. I am trimming it now, and discover the 2 bathrooms have been rewired, but I didn't do it, the contractor did it. And it is not a legal installation. There are a few violations, and when I called the forman on the job on it, he said that it wasn't on my permit to do the bathrooms, and he was doing me a favor by not calling me up there to rewire 2 outlets, and 2 light fixture locations.

I have a few jobs going with this guy now, and work is slow. I want more work, but don't want this going on.

How would you handle this?

 

[480sparky]

First, I have language in my contracts dealing with changes, modifications, and additions to the work specificied I am to do. It basically states that I will not be responsible for it until I get paid to verify it meets my standards of installation.

If the signer of the contract doesn't want to pay me to do this, then the renegade work does not get energized. At least not until after I'm gone, and no warranty work will be provided on anything I have done.

Second, you can always have the inspector 'accidently' notice the bootleg work.

 

[quogueelectric]

Drop a dime on the guy you are legit and he needs a taste of the legal problems of contracting without propper permits and licensing/insrance.

 

[e57]

the 2 bathrooms have been rewired, but I didn't do it, the contractor did it. And it is not a legal installation. There are a few violations, and when I called the forman on the job on it, he said that it wasn't on my permit to do the bathrooms, and he was doing me a favor by not calling me up there to rewire 2 outlets, and 2 light fixture locations.

I have a few jobs going with this guy now, and work is slow. I want more work, but don't want this going on.

How would you handle this?

Tell him he would be doing you - and himself a favor by calling you. Tell him that you would be more efficient than his guys trying to wing it.

 

[highendtron]

More important than getting the extra work is to cover your hind quarters! Take a few pictures and keep clear records with time stamps. There is not much you can say or do if the owner or general doesn't support you. Getting the EI involved beyond your work may be a double edged sword.

 

[goldstar]

I feel for you. You're caught between a rock and a hard place. I would first attempt to appeal to the GC to stop doing electrical work while you have a permit out for other work on the job. If he refuses, I would cover my tail by sending a certified mail letter (on your letterhead) to the EI (and cc to the GC) stating that you are contractually obligated to this GC to do only the electrical work in the kitchen and that any other electrical work done at this condo was done by others. The EI therefore, is only obligated to inspect the work that you pulled a permit for but can snoop around for other work that he suspects might have been done. By the same token, the letter will remain at the town hall and inside the folder for this job. That way when the condo burns down 2 years from now and the fire dept. determines that it was caused by faulty wiring in one of the bathrooms your letter will be on file.

I would then try to work things out with the GC for future work and explain that he is putting your license at risk by doing this work himself. If you don't get more business from this GC then it wasn't worth the risk anyway.

 

[ptonsparky]

I have lost a customer or two over things like that. I make sure the inspector knows I am not resposible for that work and let them deal with it or we make all corrections needed and bill someone accordingly.

 

[charlietuna]

I would bring to the GC's attention that "HE" has some code issues in the bathrooms and that when you call for your inspection, the inspector may find these violations and effect "YOUR" inspection. Have a price ready for him, and if asks for it fine if not--end of story-- if the inspector catches it, i'd explain the situation to him.

 

[Rewire]

It reminds me of the joke were the guy asks the girl if she would nsleep with him for a million dollars and she says yes then he says now we know what you are its just a matter of haggleing over price.

When it is my integrity and reputation at stake the line gets drawn rather quickly. Decide what your core values are.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

When it is my integrity and reputation at stake the line gets drawn rather quickly. Decide what your core values are.

Can sometimes be hard to do, when feeding your family has been hard to do in this economic situation we are in.

At worst, when completing the final for your job, make sure the final certificate states:
"This certificate is for electrical work in the kitchen only, includes no other work."

I suggest this to contractors all the time. I used to have that wording put on the certificate, when I as a contractor, ran into the same situation.


P.S.
The property owner may not even be aware that you did not perform the bathroom installations.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

It reminds me of the joke were the guy asks the girl if she would nsleep with him for a million dollars and she says yes then he says now we know what you are its just a matter of haggleing over price.

When it is my integrity and reputation at stake the line gets drawn rather quickly. Decide what your core values are.

I really like this.

 

[satcom]

The way I see it is if we as Licensed Contractors look the other way when GC's pull these tricks, we are shooting ourself in the foot, and making Public Safety Laws a joke, times being tough is no excuse to skirt the law.

 

[Kdog76]

I've run across this quite a few times. My first thought has always been to get the inspector involved, but in some locations that can be tough to do. I know some EC's that pull a permit on every job, even if it's not required locally, just to stop that kind of thing from happening. I don't like it when I see it, and I'm not afraid to tell these people that (at least in my location) a fine for unlicensed electrical work starts at $750.00. I wish more localities enforced it better, but it's up to us to enforce it when we see it going on.
At the very least let the GC know that your liability is stuck on that job - and de facto you can be held liable, esp. when you have a permit going on the job.
Not an easy situation, and I hope this thread continues...

 

[petersonra]

Would like some opinions as to how to handle this situation.

I am permited by city to rewire a kitchen in 6 story condo. I am trimming it now, and discover the 2 bathrooms have been rewired, but I didn't do it, the contractor did it. And it is not a legal installation. There are a few violations, and when I called the forman on the job on it, he said that it wasn't on my permit to do the bathrooms, and he was doing me a favor by not calling me up there to rewire 2 outlets, and 2 light fixture locations.

I have a few jobs going with this guy now, and work is slow. I want more work, but don't want this going on.

How would you handle this?

If your work permit only covered the kitchen, and thats the only work that you did, how do you figure you are even involved in whatever work may or may not have been done elsewhere?

Sometimes it is best not to snoop around. You may find things that trouble you that cannot be resolved in any simple way.

I think you have just a few viable choices.

1. Rat the guy out. This is not a desirable choice for many reasons, not the least of which it is not your job to be the EI's rat. If the inspector showed up and did not notice the extra work done, that is his fault.

2. If the nature of the violations you think you may have observed rise to a level that they will cause you to lose sleep, you could sneak into the bathroom one day and fix them, and never say a word about it.

3. Its entirely possible that you were mistaken in thinking you saw any violations from the quick glance you made into the bathroom as you were walking past it on your way home. Thats what I think actually happened. It won't be all that hard to convince yourself if you try.

 

[petersonra]

When it is my integrity and reputation at stake the line gets drawn rather quickly. Decide what your core values are.

Its one thing to do quality, up to code work. Thats an ethical and integrity issue.

There is generally no ethical (or for that matter legal) requirement to rat someone out over a minor, non-safety issue you may or may not happen to notice.

IMO, if there is a serious problem with work you did not do, or with existing work, you do have an ethical (but probably not legal) obligation to notify the GC in writing about it.

 

[Rewire]

Its one thing to do quality, up to code work. Thats an ethical and integrity issue.

There is generally no ethical (or for that matter legal) requirement to rat someone out over a minor, non-safety issue you may or may not happen to notice.

IMO, if there is a serious problem with work you did not do, or with existing work, you do have an ethical (but probably not legal) obligation to notify the GC in writing about it.

Sad comentary on our society, As I understand it from the OP a permit is required for electrical work and they discovered work preformed that was not under the scope of thier permit .

The GC was saving a few pennies and flying under the radar this may possibly be a violation of the law

Now the OP did not search this out but came upon it during normal checks

My father always said "If you can bend it it's not a rule"

 

[petersonra]

Sad comentary on our society, As I understand it from the OP a permit is required for electrical work and they discovered work preformed that was not under the scope of thier permit .

The GC was saving a few pennies and flying under the radar this may possibly be a violation of the law

Now the OP did not search this out but came upon it during normal checks

My father always said "If you can bend it it's not a rule"

What normal checks? Was he hired to check out the electrical wiring in the bathroom? if you are hired to work on one part of the house do you "normally" check out all the rest of the wiring in the house?

Since the OP chose not to include the nature of the violations he may have observed in the bathroom, its hard for me to get worked up about them.

In any case, I doubt there is a rule requiring an EC to rat out people who are not following the rules, so it is not about the EC bending a rule or not.

 

[Rewire]

What normal checks? Was he hired to check out the electrical wiring in the bathroom? if you are hired to work on one part of the house do you "normally" check out all the rest of the wiring in the house?

Since the OP chose not to include the nature of the violations he may have observed in the bathroom, its hard for me to get worked up about them.

In any case, I doubt there is a rule requiring an EC to rat out people who are not following the rules, so it is not about the EC bending a rule or not.

so where do you draw the line when it comes to "ratting out"?

 

[gardiner]

This thread really has me confused. From time to time I read on forums about people doing hack work or illegal work without proper permits and insurances and how that is wrong and someone should do something about it. Now I read this about "ratting". Think there is a little double standard here? Either it is right or it is wrong if it is right then no one posting on this should ever post about loosing a job to someone working out of his trunk with no overhead insurance etc, etc... if it is wrong and you want things to change stand up and do something. You can do it quietly just a fast phone call and no one will know or you can proclaim it loud and clear "don't _____ with my livelihood".

 

[petersonra]

This thread really has me confused. From time to time I read on forums about people doing hack work or illegal work without proper permits and insurances and how that is wrong and someone should do something about it. Now I read this about "ratting". Think there is a little double standard here? Either it is right or it is wrong if it is right then no one posting on this should ever post about loosing a job to someone working out of his trunk with no overhead insurance etc, etc... if it is wrong and you want things to change stand up and do something. You can do it quietly just a fast phone call and no one will know or you can proclaim it loud and clear "don't _____ with my livelihood".

Are you going to call the cops every time you see someone driving 5 MPH over the speed limit?

Or when you see someone parked at an expired meter?

Or when you find pot in your kid's bedroom?

If you cannot answer "yes" truthfully to those questions than it is really not about the rule so much as it is about the possibility you may have been harmed financially by the unlicensed work. Reporting others to the authorities for a financial consideration is ratting, and there is little that is ethical or moral about it.