Elec. work on your permit you didn't do?

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Palmbay

Member
Location
Palm Bay Florida
Just to clearify.....

I don't want you to answer this question with another question please. I want an honest, this is what I will do if this happens to me, answer. This happens more than we think it does, and we don't catch it half the time.

Show your professionalism.

I don't need to be specific on the violations, in my opinion. They are obvious violations I saw passing through the room, and there were more than 4 in a 3 foot square area in the wall.

Also, I will say, this contractor has a good reputation. Many awards for building, and peer respect in local and reginal builders and comunity groups.

Thank you
 

lefty

Member
Location
Oklahoma
permenant markings

permenant markings

Maybe we need to start using a permenant marking system for wires, cables, boxes, and conduit with EC's name on the work so that when the EI comes and sees no markings, he knows the EC did not do it. I realize this would be another burden, but keeping that marking device only in your hands or locked up, might prevent this sort of thing from ever coming up.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Maybe we need to start using a permenant marking system for wires, cables, boxes, and conduit with EC's name on the work so that when the EI comes and sees no markings, he knows the EC did not do it. I realize this would be another burden, but keeping that marking device only in your hands or locked up, might prevent this sort of thing from ever coming up.
I just keep a daily log and photos of my own work. That, along with a scope of work in a contract should do it.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I have to say I am surprised at all the problems you guys seem to have with others doing electrical work on your jobs.

It happens all the time where I am and it works simply I just say 'I did not do that work' and the inspector takes my word for it.

An example; a couple of summers ago we installed a new 1600 amp switchboard, we where off the job a few days and when I got back there was already a 200 amp feeder pulled off the new board and I had not even pulled the feeders yet. :grin:

The customer hired us to put in the 1600 amp feeder and used their regular contractor to install the 200 amp feeder. No harm, no foul. They had a permit, we had a permit and the inspector knows the difference. :smile:
 

lefty

Member
Location
Oklahoma
your situation is fine, all legal. alot of problems is with unlicensed people doing the work and no permit, at least that is what they were discussing
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
I have to say I am surprised at all the problems you guys seem to have with others doing electrical work on your jobs.

The customer hired us to put in the 1600 amp feeder and used their regular contractor to install the 200 amp feeder. No harm, no foul. They had a permit, we had a permit and the inspector knows the difference. :smile:
Bob that's a whole different situation. If a GC uses more than one contractor that really none of our business, they do what they are paid to do and we do what we are paid to do and are responsible for.

The problem starts when a contractor or homeowner tries to to do work on a job that is permitted by us at the same time without a permit.

I have had GCs bring in low voltage crews that didn't pull a permit on the job at the same time I was running the power circuits. All my work passed inspection but I still can't get a final until the low voltage mess is cleared up.
Bob on a remodel you often don't get a seperate electrical permit, the GC permits the job and all you do us sign in as the electrician of record. If he makes changes or additions to the job without telling you about it you are still listed as the contractor for that job. You could say that anyone that he has doing electrical work on that job is working under your license without your knowledge because that's just about what it comes down to. You would need to prove you are innocent of an faults found. This is just an extra bit of trouble that you don't need.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I am still missing the point here.

Here it takes an Electrician to pull a permit. If I am doing a remodel and lets say the GC has a labor do some electric work that is not my problem. I would simply tell the inspector that is not my work. Of course this may cause friction with the GC once the electrical inspector gets done with them but really ....... is this so much of a worry you would keep your mouth shut and risk that this other work was done properly?

This has happened to me, I had an inspector out to do a ceiling inspection and they asked about a bunch of low voltage wiring resting on the grid, told the EI that was not my work, it was the work of the security contractor. The security company got fined for no permit and the job waited for this to get straighted out. We ended up taking over the security installation and added it to our permit.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
If you wind up keeping the problem to yourself at a minimum you need to take pictures ( timestamp) and take notes.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
iwire said:
They had a permit, we had a permit and the inspector knows the difference.
I think that's the major difference here Bob. If I understand this correctly the OP indicated that he had a permit out for the job but the add'l work done was performed by the GC who (I'm assuming) did not have a permit out to do the work. If both jobs were done at the same time, in essence wasn't the bootleg work done under the license of whomever took out the electrical permit (irrespective of whether it got inspected or not)? IMHO, I'd still go on file with a letter to the municipality stating that "any other" work done on the job was not done by me. You may have a good relationship with the EI but 2 years down the road when the condo burns down the lawyers aren't going to accept your testimony that the EI knew that you did not do the work.
 

Palmbay

Member
Location
Palm Bay Florida
Hey guys, thanks for all the replys to this.

Here is an update.....

Last week had the final inspection. Inspector flagged me on "disposal and dishwasher circuit breaker are required to be operated simultaneously both appliances are in the same electrical box". I say to the contractor that I didn't even put those circuits in, they were existing, and did not require to bring that up to current code. He said take it up with the inspector, so I said I will just come change the breaker. I go to get the check, and they back charged me $30 for the reinspection fee. This chaps my ..... I spoke with another municipal today to get there input on the situation, and they said it is cut and dry business working out of the range of there license.

To top all of this off, the customer didn't like the slim line florecent fixtures or the installation method. To compromise, I offered to replace all the lamps to a different color, and suggested the contractor put a thin piece of wood on the bottoms of the cabinets to hide the wire to the fixture. The first thing the contractor said was "who is paying for that", and I replied not me.

I also replaced a smoke detector and door bell transformer on this job, no change order or back charge, just to get it finished and paid up.

I feel like an electrical whore. I have a call into the building official now, I should hear back from him tomarow. I will let him know what is going on.

I am so disappointed in the way some contractors are doing business. I have heard this guy stand up in front of the bulding officials at builders meetings, and ask them "what are you doing about unlicensed contractors doing work out of there scope".

Thank you
 
Last edited:

e57

Senior Member
Hey guys, thanks for all the replys to this.

Here is an update.....

Last week had the final inspection. Inspector flagged me on "disposal and dishwasher circuit breaker are required to be operated simultaneously both appliances are in the same electrical box". I say to the contractor that I didn't even put those circuits in, they were existing, and did not require to bring that up to current code. He said take it up with the inspector, so I said I will just come change the breaker. I go to get the check, and they back charged me $30 for the reinspection fee. This chaps my ..... I spoke with another municipal today to get there input on the situation, and they said it is cut and dry business working out of the range of there license.

To top all of this off, the customer didn't like the slim line florecent fixtures or the installation method. To compromise, I offered to replace all the lamps to a different color, and suggested the contractor put a thin piece of wood on the bottoms of the cabinets to hide the wire to the fixture. The first thing the contractor said was "who is paying for that", and I replied not me.

I also replaced a smoke detector and door bell transformer on this job, no change order or back charge, just to get it finished and paid up.

I feel like an electrical whore. I have a call into the building official now, I should hear back from him tomarow. I will let him know what is going on.

I am so disappointed in the way some contractors are doing business. I have heard this guy stand up in front of the bulding officials at builders meetings, and ask them "what are you doing about unlicensed contractors doing work out of there scope".

Thank you
Coming from a guy out of work..... I say you should start developing other relationships....

However - I am assuming multi-inspector on multi-permit????? If this was your own permit - why were you not there to stuff the disconnect thing down his throat. ~ I mean, argue the point that he is mis-informed, the two pole breaker is only required if both circuits are on the same YOKE! And depending on code cycle if on the same MWBC... Not 'same box'.... As well as to lay claim to what you did and did not do.
 

roy g

Member
roy g

roy g

i currently have job where building owner was tryng to do work in commercial building without approved plans or permit. my project was to add about 12 receptacles and a few fixtures for a new tennant, which we had plans and permit. when we called for inspection, the inspector went ballistic about the other work being done in ajoining area. very little of it would meet code. he issued a stop work order until the entire place was brought to code and permitted. i talked with the tennant i am contracted with this morning, and he said the owner was complaining to him that he was having to spent $11,000.00 for arch and engineer services. If he had used compentent people to begin with, he wouldn't be having this problem now. roy g
 

Palmbay

Member
Location
Palm Bay Florida
Coming from a guy out of work..... I say you should start developing other relationships....

However - I am assuming multi-inspector on multi-permit????? If this was your own permit - why were you not there to stuff the disconnect thing down his throat. ~ I mean, argue the point that he is mis-informed, the two pole breaker is only required if both circuits are on the same YOKE! And depending on code cycle if on the same MWBC... Not 'same box'.... As well as to lay claim to what you did and did not do.
2 circuits on same yoke..... But was from year condo was build..... Late 70's
I agree it is a safer practice, but I don't see where he can require me to bring it up to current code.... That means everytime you replace a bad outlet in a house now, you need to put an arc fault in.... At least that is the mentality I get. I am easy going, and I want to get the job done, and have a customer that is pleased with the job..... I have done stuped stuff for inspectors, just to get it over with, I don't want to argue over a $6 breaker.... But a $30 back charge with no warning, and electrical work on my project not done by a lic. electrician, I do have a problem with that. I work on projects alot where there is another EC on the project, and I don't have a problem with the lic. guys.
 
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