Elec. work on your permit you didn't do?

[gardiner]

I don't see the connection of someone driving 5 miles an hour over the speed limit and feeding my family, unless that 5 miles is through a crosswalk and a child of mine is walking across it at the time. Of course its financial its business.
I hear is about electricians being walked all over having to cut the price because there are those out there willing to do electrical without permits, insurance etc. etc people not taking electrical contracting seriously. Then I see this, we are talking about business you either get it and protect it or give it up and get a job and let someone else deal with the real world. Remember if you allow it to continue there may not be many jobs you can get and before long you may have to work under the table out of the trunk of your car yourself.
If your a professional act like it and protect what you can.

 

[aline]

he was doing me a favor by not calling me up there to rewire 2 outlets, and 2 light fixture locations.

I wonder how he would feel if he showed up at the job and found you had done some work that he normally would have done and billed the customer for it just so he wouldn't have to come up there to do it.

Would he feel you had done him a favor or would he rather have done the work and got paid for it instead of you?

The next time someone needs some work done for a small project and asks you if you know of a GC to do the work be sure not to mention his name.
You'll be doing him a favor if you just do it all yourself so he doesn't have to be bothered with it.

 

[growler]

Reporting others to the authorities for a financial consideration is ratting, and there is little that is ethical or moral about it.

If you really want to talk about being ethical and moral then think about the customer. I know how this works because I have seen it many times. The GC is contracted to remodel a kitchen and two bathrooms so he only permits the kitchen and leaves the bathrooms off the permit.

Do you really think the average customer understands that the GC is not having the bathrooms inspected, they see a permit for the work and think all work will be to code ( it's what they paid for, that's why they hired a professional contractor).

Is it really all that ethical and moral to stand by and watch a GC cheat a customer because you are afraid of losing future work? What do they call it when someone keeps their mouth shut for financial consideration?

One of the main reasons GCs don't permit work is because they don't exactly plan on a code compliant installation. The inspector is coming to the job site anyway so why try to hide anything?

By the way when we rat people out we don't do it for financial consideration we do it for spite.

 

[satcom]

If you really want to talk about being ethical and moral then think about the customer. I know how this works because I have seen it many times. The GC is contracted to remodel a kitchen and two bathrooms so he only permits the kitchen and leaves the bathrooms off the permit.

Do you really think the average customer understands that the GC is not having the bathrooms inspected, they see a permit for the work and think all work will be to code ( it's what they paid for, that's why they hired a professional contractor).

Is it really all that ethical and moral to stand by and watch a GC cheat a customer because you are afraid of losing future work? What do they call it when someone keeps their mouth shut for financial consideration?

One of the main reasons GCs don't permit work is because they don't exactly plan on a code compliant installation. The inspector is coming to the job site anyway so why try to hide anything?

By the way when we rat people out we don't do it for financial consideration we do it for spite.

I vote for ratting out the GC he is sticking to the customer and has no regard for putting the EC in a bad liability position, rat the bum out, and find an honest GC to work with.

 

[rt66electric]

Inspect only what you do

Inspect only what you do

When you call for an inspection, make sure the call-in states "kitchen only". C-Y-A If the inspector asks, Then say "I did not do that area" , nothing more -nothing less. Toe the line. If the inspector happens to see a "elsewhere violation", then give him the GC's number. If you point out a "Nanny-Nanny" the GC will never call you back.

The inspector has enough problems-than to play judge-jury-hangman. If he wants to hang the GC- let him. If he want to turn a blind eye ,let him. If he misses something, then let it be.

The portion of "kitchen only" will C-Y-A if necessary.(I-hope?)

If the inspector catches it on his own, then the GC may ask you to repair the violation.

If it is a major error- then walk away from the GC. If he has not paid you a check, then you have not worked for him. It is better to lose a days $pay than be responsible for a $2-millon (somebody's else) mistake.

 

[480sparky]

.............If it is a major error- then walk away from the GC. If he has not paid you a check, then you have not worked for him. It is better to lose a days $pay than be responsible for a $2-millon (somebody's else) mistake.

Whether or not he got paid is irrelevant if it turns out to be a $2mil mistake. His name is on the permit, and a lawyer will find him.

 

[Sharpie]

I've had inspections before where there are obvious code violations done by HO DIY. When I asked the inspector about this other stuff over the phone before he came, he told me that he'd only be there to inspect my work that I pulled a permit for. And when he saw the other stuff I mentioned, he said that that is "pre-exsiting work", but he did make "safety recommendations" to the HO.

Being a privately owned and operated inspection company, he did what he thought was appropriate to save face with the customer, yet somewhat satisfy his conscience.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

When you call for an inspection, make sure the call-in states "kitchen only". C-Y-A If the inspector asks, Then say "I did not do that area" , nothing more -nothing less. Toe the line. If the inspector happens to see a "elsewhere violation", then give him the GC's number. If you point out a "Nanny-Nanny" the GC will never call you back.

Communication with a 'good' inspector is always important, whether the job is a good job or one going south.

What rt66 has mentioned above is exactly what I like an EC to do. Let me know what is going on and I will handle it from that point on. The homeowner will get the violation and then we go on from that point.
The times this has occurred, I have seen a number of times the EC either will finishe the job, or is let go. That is the decision the EC has to make.
It can get messy, but that is part of the game we all play.

 

[Rewire]

Are you going to call the cops every time you see someone driving 5 MPH over the speed limit?

Or when you see someone parked at an expired meter?

Or when you find pot in your kid's bedroom?

If you cannot answer "yes" truthfully to those questions than it is really not about the rule so much as it is about the possibility you may have been harmed financially by the unlicensed work. Reporting others to the authorities for a financial consideration is ratting, and there is little that is ethical or moral about it.

I have no doubt that all the criminals are happy they have convinced you to feel this way

 

[petersonra]

I have no doubt that all the criminals are happy they have convinced you to feel this way

I am not all that concerned about turning in people over trivial rule violations.

I would call 911 in a more serious situation like a car accident, or a more serious crime.

I do not personally believe you have ever called in to report someone whose sole crime was exceeding the speed limit rule by a few MPH.

If it is solely about the rules, it is hypocritical not to report all rule breakers.

Did you report your buddy that took an extra 5 minutes on his lunch yesterday?

I don't care if you rat someone out who violated the license laws. But don't get all holy about it and pretend it is altruism and concern for the safety of others on your part when it is mostly financial.

BTW - for those of you who admit that they would consider ratting someone out over this kind of thing because it is a financial issue, I have considerable respect for your honesty about your reasons.

 

[gardiner]

How about you look at this from another point of view lets say someone steals from you do you report it? Now if you say yes to this please explain the difference of having someone steal the food off your table by grabbing your wallet or someone stealing food off your table by doing illegal work that you should of had or at least the chance of having.

 

[480sparky]

The work that was done illegally isn't the OPs to begin with. Yes, he stands a good chance of doing it if the GC wanted someone to do it, but you cannot steal something from someone that isn't theirs in the first place.

 

[Rewire]

I do not personally believe you have ever called in to report someone whose sole crime was exceeding the speed limit rule by a few MPH.

you would be wrong in your assumption

If it is solely about the rules, it is hypocritical not to report all rule breakers.

This is true but consideration of other factors often come into play one being can it effect a change in the behavior

Did you report your buddy that took an extra 5 minutes on his lunch yesterday?

No I just fired him

I don't care if you rat someone out who violated the license laws. But don't get all holy about it and pretend it is altruism and concern for the safety of others on your part when it is mostly financial.

BTW - for those of you who admit that they would consider ratting someone out over this kind of thing because it is a financial issue, I have considerable respect for your honesty about your reasons.

My concern is will this work done by others be passed off as being done by my company.I don't care who does the work as long as the permit is in thier name

 

[mivey]

Are you going to call the cops every time you see someone driving 5 MPH over the speed limit?

Or when you see someone parked at an expired meter?

Or when you find pot in your kid's bedroom?

If you cannot answer "yes" truthfully to those questions than it is really not about the rule so much as it is about the possibility you may have been harmed financially by the unlicensed work. Reporting others to the authorities for a financial consideration is ratting, and there is little that is ethical or moral about it.

I understand what you are saying. But we do make up our own minds as to what rule-breakings we consider more egregious than others. FWIW, I do not think you are saying that if you don't report every rule violation you see to the authorities that you are no longer a moral or ethical person.

For the record, if I thought the work might put my company at risk, I would definitely cover myself. I owe it to my family, my self, and my co-workers. As for other violations, my decision would not be based soley on breaking a rule.

From your posts, I think you would report something hazardous that was not going to be fixed otherwise. But, you have no desire to complicate your life by using rule legalities to report those who may be taking some of your potential business, and then calling it a moral decision.

The reporters may be doing it out of spite, like growler said. They may be doing it to protect their financial interests. I don't, in general, have an issue with that. Sometimes business is business. I don't think you were saying it was un-ethical or immoral to report the violation, just that it is more of a financial choice instead of strictly an ethical choice.

Would you make the "moral" choice to report a $10 violation if you knew it would cost you $100,000 of work? I don't think every case is so cut and dried. Would you "rat-out" someone for doing unsafe work or try to take a non-legalistic approach first? I'm not sure you would know until you were faced with the specific situation.

How you go about the reporting for financial reasons could become an ethical or moral issue.

But I do think if you are reporting somebody, and call it a moral decision when it is really a financial decision, you are not being true to yourself. What everyone else thinks about it is secondary.

You can't live your life based on everyone else's morals or you will look like a jumbled up jigsaw puzzle. Pick and choose the qualities you see in others that you like and adopt them as your own. Don't sweat it if someone does not like your choices. If you make bad choices, the world has a way of gettin' your mind right (sometimes).

Just try to live by a high standard and treat others like you would want to be treated. Sounds good. I don't always do it. But I want to.

Sounds to me like Petersonra suspects that some are making a financial decision and are hiding behind a moral cloak because they are afraid the financial cloak is not as pretty. I can't say if anyone is doing that or not. I really don't have a fundamental issue with either cloak.

 

[growler]

The reporters may be doing it out of spite, like growler said.

Sounds to me like Petersonra suspects that some are making a financial decision and are hiding behind a moral cloak because they are afraid the financial cloak is not as pretty.

It's not just that, there are no provisions under the law that would allow you to report a GC simply because he is taking money out of your pocket.

When dealing with the laws of our land you have to use what is available to you. If you are running a bar and the bar next door is undercutting prices there is no law against that but if you know that they are operating without a liquor license then you would be crazy to let them continue to operate.

It's hard enough to run a legitimate business anyway but there is no reason to have to compete with those that refuse to follow the rules.

The GC has all the advantage when it comes to wiring these bathrooms. Without a permit and inspection there may be flying splices and buried boxes all over the place in these bathrooms. It's very hard to compete with a contractor that's willing to cut every corner to include safety in order to get a job. The law says we don't have to so I'm all for useing the laws that we do have.

If anyone does enough service calls they will start to see the difference between a code compliant job that's had an inspection and those done by jack-legs under the radar. We may only have our self interest at heart when reporting an unlicensed contractor but the public safety aspect can not be denied.

When a cop gives you a ticket for speeding he does so because he is being paid to do a job but that doesn't mean that he still isn't making the highway a safer place. Just because finance is our primary motive that doesn't mean that we are not doing a public service. Contractors tend to work under the radar for a reason, they don't want anyone to see what they are doing. They know the job won't pass inspection so they don't get a permit for the work.

 

[satcom]

I get the feeling Petersonra does not understand the electrical contracting business.

 

[iwire]

At least not until after I'm gone, and no warranty work will be provided on anything I have done.

I doubt that would make it through court.

If someone adds a branch circuit from a sub panel that you installed you can not refuse to warranty the service.

Obviously you would not warranty anything others did or warranty anything others damaged.

You or I are always responsible for the work we do.

 

[mivey]

You or I are always responsible for the work we do.

Glad to see you two can work together. The Massachusetts-Iowa-Massachusetts commute must be dreadful. :grin:

 

[iwire]

Glad to see you two can work together. The Massachusetts-Iowa-Massachusetts commute must be dreadful. :grin:

Ken's cool, I use his gas card for the commute.

 

[480sparky]

I doubt that would make it through court.

If someone adds a branch circuit from a sub panel that you installed you can not refuse to warranty the service...........

Where is it written I am compelled to provide any warranty in the first place?

Ken's cool, I use his gas card for the commute.

You're not driving an electric vehicle yet?