California Certification Enforcement

[Sierrasparky]

Thanks,
Let us know the outcome please.
Did you get a chance to look at this link? http://www.cslb.ca.gov/Resources/GuidesAndPamphlets/CALBOGuidelines.pdf

 

[cowboyjwc]

Thanks,
Let us know the outcome please.
Did you get a chance to look at this link? http://www.cslb.ca.gov/Resources/GuidesAndPamphlets/CALBOGuidelines.pdf

No I haven't, but I'm not a CALBO member and our bosses don't always share.:smile:

 

[e57]

I don't know if Div 16 is an enforced document. It usually is job specific. It rarely comes into play in smaller private works.
The enforcement of certificated or unlicensed contractors/workers is an entirely different deal. We already have in the public bids process that contractors must pay prevailing wages. This is never verified. ( hardly)

I realize most jobs are not going to have a CSI styled spec and description binder - but I hope you get my point?

If you got say an Architect to insert any language requiring certified electricians onto the boiler plates of his plans and general notes - it becomes part of the contract documents. Not too mention a fair warning, and a means of protecting GC's and clients from a C-10 how hires the non certified. (A selling point for either yours or my version of said language... ) That type of risk, and right there becomes a notice that said C-10 is then KNOWINGLY and willfully violating the law. Because it would be very hard to refute that they did not read the electrical notes printed on each copy of the plans.... Or on the contract they signed, much like the required language of lien warnings or 3-day right to cancel, or the required asbestos educational materials. (that few people provide....)

Right now there are few GC's or Architects etc. that know about this law - asking them to add it to, or more broadly requiring them by law to put it in there closes that "willful" out..... IMO. Requiring proof in one way or another is something many cities do, as they often have some designated "LABOR COMPLIANCE OFFICER" (AKA IBEW Rep') who wont even allow you on site without one.... Not that we need to go there or that far, but I think there needs to be something done.... Something we can do ourselves just by promoting it by word of mouth to the people we contact all the time.

The bottom line is there is little in the way of work out there now - if the uncertified guy is making less, and the C-10 who hired him is benefiting from that by providing a lower bid and winning more bids than the people who follow the law no matter our opinions of it - then something needs to be said - done - and sooner the better.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Your point well taken. I just don't think it will get anywhere.
The building inspector has the greatest potential for compliance. How many inspectors are there. How many possible sting operations could there be? The inspector has the ability to check cards but refuse to do so. Inspectors need not check everyone just those they suspect. Why on earth is there a card.
Just to let you know because of the economy and the Lack of enforcement you will see an entirely new form of unlicensed activity.
I can bet you wil see certificate holders out there offering services as self employed giving the certificate as some sort of License to do work as an electricain.

 

[e57]

Your point well taken. I just don't think it will get anywhere.

Ney sayer! Just try it. Next time you are putting a bid together.... Grab the cover sheet, and put in a little selling point statement at the end...

California labor law requires that all Electricians employed by Electrical Contractors be certified by the State of California, (XYZ Electric) is 100% compliant with these requirements.

Thank you for your consideration,
(Joe Schmuckatelli)

All I'm saying is we should be promoting the law to the people who buy our work - educating them about when we can, and yes dropping a line to to your assembellymembers and senators... (Squeaky wheels) Otherwise we will be competing with those who might not be following the law for the rest of time... And loosing to them.

Just to let you know because of the economy and the Lack of enforcement you will see an entirely new form of unlicensed activity.
I can bet you wil see certificate holders out there offering services as self employed giving the certificate as some sort of License to do work as an electricain.

THAT is definatley a CSLB issue - and I would not feel bad about ratting that person out if I knew, as it is an insult from someone who knows about the certification law and is certified, but also an insult to the renewal fees of my C-10 license. Not playing by two rules I PAY to play by. Not just an insult to the customer he is misrepresenting himself to.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I have no problem putting those words on my contract I think it might be difficult to get GC's or Arch or EE to place it on theirs. Infact I will edit that in this week. thx

Boy you have no Idea how they could give a darn about the Service and repair contract requirement ( same day jobs under 750.00)when I brought it up at a Local contractors Luncheon.

 

[e57]

I have no problem putting those words on my contract I think it might be difficult to get GC's or Arch or EE to place it on theirs. Infact I will edit that in this week. thx

Boy you have no Idea how they could give a darn about the Service and repair contract requirement ( same day jobs under 750.00)when I brought it up at a Local contractors Luncheon.

Yeah try it - the wording that is...

The service contract part, that is one that only the educated consumer can enforce - they're the only ones who'll know there is a violation.... But guarantee the first time someone gets caught they will have their record examined, and end up in the back of the CSLB newsletter.

 

[ike5547]

I can bet you wil see certificate holders out there offering services as self employed giving the certificate as some sort of License to do work as an electricain.

Take a look at craigslist. There are quite a few doing this right now.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Got a link?

 

[ike5547]

Got a link?

Craigslist links are not approved of here on this site. But if you go to the skilled services section for the Bay Area you will easily find them. Some actually have their certification numbers listed in the "licensing info" field. Others just say they are certified and will provide the info on request.

 

[ike5547]

Craigslist links are not approved of here on this site. But if you go to the skilled services section for the Bay Area you will easily find them. Some actually have their certification numbers listed in the "licensing info" field. Others just say they are certified and will provide the info on request.

Type in "certified electrician" in the search field.

 

[e57]

Got a link?

There were like a 1/2 dozen with direct violations of this kind - I am being exceptionally nice today.... I issued them all a warning. Told them to peak in here too. I'm about educating - not kicking people down - then kicking them again...

Just browsing through though... There are so many other 'licensed' idiots who putting 'bonded' in those ads - no better way to look like a fool handing your card to someone in the know with that on there.... :roll:
(For those outside CA - that is an advertizing violation here)

 

[Sierrasparky]

...

Just browsing through though... There are so many other 'licensed' idiots who putting 'bonded' in those ads - no better way to look like a fool handing your card to someone in the know with that on there.... :roll:
(For those outside CA - that is an advertizing violation here)

and a ridiculous one at that. Oh no maybe somone will think that your bond is better. oh my gosh.

Just trying to get my post numbers up.. 557 I gots lots to go!

 

[e57]

and a ridiculous one at that. Oh no maybe somone will think that your bond is better. oh my gosh.

Just trying to get my post numbers up.. 557 I gots lots to go!

If you look in the back of the cslb newsletter listing all the revoked licenses for the quarter - and look up the violation numbers you'll find that the number representing that one about advertising violations pops up quite a bit - I assume it is one they tack on to other big doosies like failure to complete work &/or fraud etc.

 

[norcal]

There were like a 1/2 dozen with direct violations of this kind - I am being exceptionally nice today.... I issued them all a warning. Told them to peak in here too. I'm about educating - not kicking people down - then kicking them again...

Just browsing through though... There are so many other 'licensed' idiots who putting 'bonded' in those ads - no better way to look like a fool handing your card to someone in the know with that on there.... :roll:
(For those outside CA - that is an advertizing violation here)

The only legal way to advertise being "Bonded" is to have a bond other then then one required of all contractors...........

 

[electricguy61]

Take a look at this PDF from the CSLB and what is expected from building officials!

http://www.cslb.ca.gov/Resources/GuidesAndPamphlets/CALBOGuidelines.pdf

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see anything in the above handout that addresses unlicensed electrical workers. It appears to be referring to unlicensed or unethical contractors.

I too am feeling somewhat cheated. I pay for my employees apprenticeship, yet I know of no other EC's that are complying with the laws.

I personally feel that the training my employees receive pay's me back in the long run (better educated, trained, and loyal), but it doesn't seem fair that all the kids in the sandbox don't have to play by the same rules.

 

[Sierrasparky]

That is exactly what I thought in the beggining. But so few comply and I need to compete with those EC's.
And as of this month it is a crime not to comply. with seeminly no enforcement!

 

[ike5547]

There were like a 1/2 dozen with direct violations of this kind - I am being exceptionally nice today.... I issued them all a warning.

lol

I just checked over there at CL. They've all stopped listing their certification numbers. Now it's only info "upon request" or "CERTIFIED" or "STATE CERTIFIED" etc.

You shook things up a little, at least.

 

[ike5547]

Even some of the guys claiming to be contractors over there put down things like the following:

Licensing info: Yes

or

Licensing info: Licensed

Often, if they even enter a number it's an expired license, or the wrong license classification, or an active one hundreds of miles away.

 

[e57]

Even some of the guys claiming to be contractors over there put down things like the following:

Licensing info: Yes

or

Licensing info: Licensed

Often, if they even enter a number it's an expired license, or the wrong license classification, or an active one hundreds of miles away.

Cards, truck, billing internet or craigslist should all have the number - not that I am in competion with the craigslist crowd yet... But if you got one, there is yet one more way to tell anyone in the know that you're a dope by not having it there...

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see anything in the above handout that addresses unlicensed electrical workers. It appears to be referring to unlicensed or unethical contractors.

I too am feeling somewhat cheated. I pay for my employees apprenticeship, yet I know of no other EC's that are complying with the laws.

I personally feel that the training my employees receive pay's me back in the long run (better educated, trained, and loyal), but it doesn't seem fair that all the kids in the sandbox don't have to play by the same rules.

The way I see it if you have uncertified guys you fall into the unethical if you know about this, and not all do, But MOST do... And of those I don't think many of them understand it completely.

The only legal way to advertise being "Bonded" is to have a bond other then then one required of all contractors...........

Don't advertise about bonding
Contractors are forbidden by law to advertise the fact that they are bonded. It could lead the public to believe there is a higher level of protection than might be the case. I am pretty sure it does not matter how many bonds you have.