Bonding the copper plumbing in a dwelling.?

[longbeach1125]

Should the copper plumbing be grounded in a residential situation where the main water pipe comes in plastic. ? Lets say the main water comes in plastic, it then changes over to copper right after entering the dwelling and its a new house, for the service 2 grounds were installed, with less than 25ohms of resistance. Should the copper plumbing be grounded so it can never become energized?

 

[iwire]

The NEC requires a metal water piping system to be bonded.

250.104(A).

 

[longbeach1125]

thank you for the prompt response.

 

[iwire]

Your welcome, no problem, welcome to the forum.

 

[romeo]

Bonding the copper plumbing in a dwelling?

Bonding the copper plumbing in a dwelling?

thank you for the prompt response.

Please note that he said bonded not grounded

 

[chris kennedy]

Here it is, to avoid confusion.

250.104 Bonding of Piping Systems and Exposed Structural Steel.

(A) Metal Water Piping. The metal water piping system shall be bonded as required in (A)(1), (A)(2), or (A)(3) of this section. The bonding jumper(s) shall be installed in accordance with 250.64(A), (B), and (E). The points of attachment of the bonding jumper(s) shall be accessible.

(1) General. Metal water piping system(s) installed in or attached to a building or structure shall be bonded to the service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductor where of sufficient size, or to the one or more grounding electrodes used. The bonding jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance with Table 250.66 except as permitted in 250.104(A)(2) and (A)(3).

 

[longbeach1125]

Please note that he said bonded not grounded

thanks chris, i know what bonding is vs grounding, but as you pointed out i still forget to use the proper word a lot.

 

[al hildenbrand]

thanks chris, i know what bonding is vs grounding, but as you pointed out i still forget to use the proper word a lot.

:grin: One of the extrodinary beauties of this Forum is, if you continue posting, you will hone your use of the terms from Article 100 Definitions. It's way cool!

Welcome to the Forum.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Do not forget to add a jumper from the cold waterlines to the hot waterlines. I do this at the hot water tank.

 

[cadpoint]

Do not forget to add a jumper from the cold waterlines to the hot waterlines. I do this at the hot water tank.

I've seen this mentioned before this would be suppliment to the exact code requirements in the all the of Article 250, Right ?

Is it just more of a Local AHJ thing? Regional practices?

 

[jxofaltrds]

The hot water tank is not an approved bonding 'device'.

Or what if the hot water tank was removed for replacement and then the hot waterlines became energized?

Had a picture but cannot find it now.

 

[M. D.]

Should the copper plumbing be grounded so it can never become energized?

The requirement to make/ keep the metal piping electrically continuous was removed back in the eighties,.. if there is metal piping likely to become energized the equipment bonding conductor of the branch circuit feeding the equipment will accomplish this bonding.

 

[iwire]

The hot water tank is not an approved bonding 'device'.

Neither is a copper elbow or coupling.

Or what if the hot water tank was removed for replacement and then the hot waterlines became energized?

What if the homeowner removes the bond?

What if .....


What if ....



What I am getting at is that there is no specific requirement to bond the hot and the cold together at the water heater. The hot and cold water lines will be 'bonded' together at each shower valve.

 

[Chamuit]

What if ....



What I am getting at is that there is no specific requirement to bond the hot and the cold together at the water heater. The hot and cold water lines will be 'bonded' together at each shower valve.

I agree with Bob. I don't think I have ever seen the cold and hot bonded. Besides, you would have to also remove every single faucet to "unbond" the hot water lines not just the water heater.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

What I mention to the guys is to go to the hot water heater after the house is just about finished. Take a continuity tester across the hot an cold water pipes. If there is no continuity bond them, if there is you are good to go.

 

[M. D.]

..... If there is no continuity bond them, if there is you are good to go.

If there wasn't I'd take a look to see what,,. if anything,.would be likely to energize the pipe in question,.. with the increased use of so many different types of insulating type fittings and devices used in plumbing it could be very hard to determine just how much of any water piping system is electrically continuous these days...

I know I remember a thread where several panel statements pointed to 250.104(b) when the system was not a completely metal one ..

 

[M. D.]

This was a great discussion on the subject Click here
Mike whitt posted this on page 13 I think ?

5-235 Log #1834 NEC-P05 Final Action: Reject
(250.104(A)(1))
__________________________________________________ __________
Substantiation: Nonmetallic water piping systems are being inserted between our metal water piping system and today?s code is not recognizing these changes.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The conditions indicated in the substantiation are already covered by 250.104(B) where there is not a complete metallic water piping system.

5-236 Log #2432 NEC-P05 Final Action: Reject
(250.104(A)(1))
__________________________________________________ __________
Substantiation: With much expanded use of plastic water piping system(s) isolating section of metal piping systems. This type of installation leaves contractors and inspectors what is required to be bonded.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The requirements of 250.104(A) apply to complete metallic water piping systems. Where there is no complete metallic water piping system, then the requirements of 250.104(B) would apply for those portions of isolated metal water piping system likely to become energized.

Then Mike astutely made this observation

Notice that the persons making these proposals have the mentality that the insertion of a piece of nonmetallic pipe made the piece of metallic pipe a system of itself, ?Nonmetallic water piping systems are being inserted between our metal water piping system?
The code panel on the other hand is calling the system one system. The nonmetallic piece of pipe did not make different systems but instead changed the rule we use to do our bonding to the one system that is in place.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I've seen this mentioned before this would be suppliment to the exact code requirements in the all the of Article 250, Right ?

Is it just more of a Local AHJ thing? Regional practices?

It is also shown, the hot waterline bonding, in the Power Point presentation that the IAEI produces. I think it is this one: Soares Book on Grounding, 10E.
http://www.iaei.org/products/products_powerpoint.htm

Sorry that I do not know the slide number. It was on a slide we saw tonight at our local IAEI monthly meeting.

 

[RIVETER]

Grounding and bonding

Grounding and bonding

Do what the code says, not forgetting the supplemental ground rod, and, I believe, it(the supplementary ground rod)
should be kept physically independent of any water pipe electrode, except for bonding at the service.

RIVETER

 

[jjdh]

I've seen this mentioned before this would be suppliment to the exact code requirements in the all the of Article 250, Right ?

Is it just more of a Local AHJ thing? Regional practices?

As Mr. Kennedy pointed out above. the water piping SYSTEM must be bonded. The water heaters, softeners, and filters all contain di-electric breaks. Thus the up-stream and down-stream piping is not electrically continuous. A bonding jumper around such equipment is required.