- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Is that a code or local requirement?
Bonding the copper plumbing in a dwelling.?
- Thread starter longbeach1125
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
Sure they can be, put a meter between the hot and cold, if you have continuity there is noting to bond or look at.
ceb58
Senior Member
- Location
- Raeford, NC
Let me ask this. Where did they come up with the term "Likely to be energised" from for the water lines? Was it due to the fact the lines were connected to a water heater that could short out? To me the word "likely" would infer there was a real good chance of something happening.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Tom
It is an intrpretation. And again I use the information in the handbook and in the Power Point presentation provided by the IAEI.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Bob
Who does this testing? Does an inspector test or just do a visual inspection?
We all know that waterline connections, threaded, corrode.
Yes I think that there is continuity. And the breaker 'should' trip.
I do not want to have to defend "reasonably concluded".
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Likely!!!!!
I have argued that too. Never won.
IMHO if it is properly installed it will never become energized.
RH1
Member
- Location
- Rick From Los Angeles
Here in Los Angeles inspectors have been requiring me to bond the hot-cold at the water heater for years. We have no local amendment that requires this. The conversation goes like this:
INSPECTOR: "Ah, not so fast there, Sparky, you're gonna need to bond the water heater"
RH1: "Can you show me the code requirement for that?"
INSPECTOR: "I don't have to, I'm telling you to do it"
RH1: "Are you a Code Enforcement Official?"
INSPECTOR: "Yes I am"
RH1: "You enforce building codes?"
INSPECTOR: "Yes I do"
RH1: "Which code are you enforcing right now?"
INSPECTOR: "Look, if you want to take it up with the Chief, you can, but it will delay your job a week"
RH1: "OK, You win, I'll bond the water heater"
INSPECTOR: "Ah, not so fast there, Sparky, you're gonna need to bond the water heater"
RH1: "Can you show me the code requirement for that?"
INSPECTOR: "I don't have to, I'm telling you to do it"
RH1: "Are you a Code Enforcement Official?"
INSPECTOR: "Yes I am"
RH1: "You enforce building codes?"
INSPECTOR: "Yes I do"
RH1: "Which code are you enforcing right now?"
INSPECTOR: "Look, if you want to take it up with the Chief, you can, but it will delay your job a week"
RH1: "OK, You win, I'll bond the water heater"
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
So do you bond every peice of threaded gas pipe if you think it's likely to become energized? By your own view each and every piece and fitting is insulated from each other.
This is getting silly.
There is NO specfic code requirement that requires you to bond between the hot and cold water pipes. Under certain rare circumstances you may find that you have to but in the overwhelming majority of cases you don't.
If you are concerned about shower connections look on the rough. There are tons of things that can't be verified on a final inspection. That doesn't mean they don't exist.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Forget about my opinions. And sometimes I am silly.
What about the opinions from the NFPA, in the handbook, and the IAEI in the Soares PP that I referenced before?
What are your views on their opinions?
- Location
- Massachusetts
I have not seen either, but if either of them say that the NEC requires a bonding jumper at all hot water heaters I would say that they are misstating the facts.
The NEC requires metal water piping systems to be bonded no more no less. If the hot and cold water piping systems are both metal but already bonded by virtue of mixing valves etc I do not have to bond it again. Now you might say the mixing valves are not listed for bonding, well neither are any of the other components in the piping system.
I also find this much to do about nothing considering the CMPs stance about water pipe bonding.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
First, you tell me how you handle threaded gas piping.
The only thing I see that you've made a reference to is the handbook commentary so I'll address that. The other stuff requires too much searching.
unenforceable NEC handbook commentary said:
I put my meter between the hot and cold, I read continuity. No Jumper
I look under a sink and see metal hot and cold piping connected to a metal faucet. No jumper
I look at the metallic shower valve. No jumper
I look at the metallic washing machine valve. No jumper
Chances are you will have at least one of the items listed above and probably several. All lead to a reasonable conclusion that the pipes are realiably bonded.
I'll say it again. There is no blanket requirement in the NEC to install a bonding jumper between hot and cold water piping. In certain rare circumstances you may have to but ONLY under those circumstances. Those cicumstances are unlikely to occur.
Actually it is really one circumstance.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
"I think bonding at the water heater harkens back to when the water piping system was required to be electrically continuous"
I hate to read anything into someone else's post. Are you saying that it should or should not be continuous?
I hate to read anything into someone else's post. Are you saying that it should or should not be continuous?
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
It is much ado about nothing. However, If you had someone like, oh say, Mike come in for an inspection and he wouldn't pass the job because there was no (noyt required) bonding jumper then it becomes a problem.
It's happened to me and it is beyond frustrating.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
We will continue to disagree.
Using your logic the gasline is bonded because it is connected to the hot water tank and the tank is connected to the waterlines.
Using your logic the gasline is bonded because it is connected to the hot water tank and the tank is connected to the waterlines.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Oh no, not that easy! We are talking about YOU here.
Your words....Teflon tape on fittings. Pipe dope.
If they are insulators on water piping then they must be the same on gas piping so how do you handle bonding that piping, and every elbow, coupling, nipple, and peice of pipe?
M. D.
Senior Member
I'm saying that requirement went by the way side ,.. in today's world it is almost impossible to expect that a piping system will remain electrically continuous from one given point to the next... so they have seemed to settle on 5' of it ,... heck they don't even expect that to remain metal ,hence the supplemental electrode
Bonding the copper plumbing in a dwelling.?
The 2 ground rods are the grounding electrode system, and serve no purpose for bonding the interior water system. I expect that the ges was tested to document 25ohms,the fact that 2 rods were installed does not guarantee that, but meets the requirements of the NEC.
Yes all interior piping systems must be bonded,
The 2 ground rods are the grounding electrode system, and serve no purpose for bonding the interior water system. I expect that the ges was tested to document 25ohms,the fact that 2 rods were installed does not guarantee that, but meets the requirements of the NEC.
Yes all interior piping systems must be bonded,
- Status