Elevators egress

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JJWalecka

JJWalecka

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It is my understanding that in the United States elevators are routinely not used for occupant egress. The United Kingdom and some former British colonies provide protected elevators for fire department access in buildings exceeding one hundred feet.

Can anyone provide further information on the subject?

JJ
 
I assume that you mean in case of fire. US practice generally is that the fire alarm will call all elevators to a home floor, usually the building lobby, and disable all call buttons. A "fire department" key may be used to enable manual control in an individual car to go to other floors. IIRC this is all in the building codes.
 
That was my understanding....but what about the disabled who would have an issue with using the stairs? In a fire they are trapped with out the use of elevators


JJ
 
JJWalecka said:
.... what about the disabled who would have an issue with using the stairs? In a fire they are trapped with out the use of elevators


JJ
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zbang said:
The fire crews are supposed to handle them.
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zbang said:
A "fire department" key may be used to enable manual control in an individual car to go to other floors.
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....and evacuate the disabled/injuried utilizing the elevators ~ IF POSSIBLE due to smoke and/or other conditions.

This is my understanding also.
 
There have been issues with the controls when using elevators in a building that is on fire. Most fire fighters are taught to never use an elevator above the fire floor. They are also taught that if they use it below the fire floor, they need to stop 2 to 5 floors below, get out and use the stairs.
 
Most codes do not require that the elevators go into recall mode on a general fire alarm signal. Only when an elevator lobby, machine room, or pit/shaft smoke detector goes off do the elevators go into recall mode.
 
Thank you for your time. I am concerned about people with disabilities and there safety during a fire. Everything is about money not what is right or wrong.

JJ
 
JJWalecka said:
Thank you for your time. I am concerned about people with disabilities and there safety during a fire. Everything is about money not what is right or wrong.

JJ
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yes it often is about money. Personnel safety is a very expensive concern. You are not the first to consider this, as the insurance companies biggest payouts are generally due to personal injury and personal injury resulting from negligence in design or behavior.

I would bet that since the 1990's and the Americans With Disabilities Act, much thought and effort has gone into thinking, planning, and building with your concerns in mind. some of these posts in this thread tend to confirm my bet.
 
"I would bet that since the 1990's and the Americans With Disabilities Act, much thought and effort has gone into thinking, planning, and building with your concerns in mind. some of these posts in this thread tend to confirm my bet."

Perhaps correcting the issue with new installations is a start...

JJ
 
JJWalecka said:
"I would bet that since the 1990's and the Americans With Disabilities Act, much thought and effort has gone into thinking, planning, and building with your concerns in mind. some of these posts in this thread tend to confirm my bet."

Perhaps correcting the issue with new installations is a start...

JJ
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I agree. Your idea about isolated elevator shafts is a good one. My old neighbor is an elevator guy in Chicago: I'll ask him if he sees much of this.
 
At one time I thought of a safety system, that would prevent an elevator opening at a involved floor. Which is the main concern, second part causes a fire rated door to close off the elevator shaft at the involved floor preventing the fire and smoke from spreading into the shaft, this keeps the elevator in operation

The system would be simple, high temp NC switch just outside or in the close proximity of the elevator, if the fire trips it, the elevator will not stop at that floor, and the fire door closes, this can allow evacuation above or below it, the shaft should be fire protected by true fire walls, all the way around it, with a rating determined upon the time it would take to evacuate that building.

Only where the fire involves the first floor would this be a problem. but the elevator would stop at the second floor in this case if the safety temp switch was tripped on the first, so it would allow evacuation from the second floor, and down one set of stairs?
 
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Man, you aught to patent that! At least the door part, we'd just use smokes for the "switch part" or could use a heat detector if need be.

Could also use a mechanical melting link (like in a kitchen hood)- hmmmm....

My only addition would be to add a firefighter egress/entry option, probably something mechanical, that would allow them access or escape options if needed.

Great idea! (only from northern Indiana! :D)

I'll be in Merrilville all week - we should chat! ;)

Jim
 
Another use for this system would be to keep from locking all the stairwell doors, as is done now, one of the problems with this is if a stairwell is blocked half way down, and people are trying to exit down the stairs, well going back up is not an option as they are now trapped in the stairwell because all the doors locked behind them, with a simple circuit that would only lock the doors to the floors that are involved with the fire, they would be able to return to another floor and possibly escape down another stairwell.
 
hurk27 said:
At one time I thought of a safety system, that would prevent an elevator opening at a involved floor.

Which is the main concern, second part causes a fire rated door to close off the elevator shaft at the involved floor preventing the fire and smoke from spreading into the shaft, this keeps the elevator in operation

The system would be simple, high temp NC switch just outside or in the close proximity of the elevator, if the fire trips it, the elevator will not stop at that floor, and the fire door closes, this can allow evacuation above or below it, the shaft should be fire protected by true fire walls, all the way around it, with a rating determined upon the time it would take to evacuate that building.
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Keep in mind as presently wired elevator control circuits penetrate the shaft walls on every floor. (Call buttons, indicator lights etc.)


don_resqcapt19 said:
There have been issues with the controls when using elevators in a building that is on fire.
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It's all in the pre-planning. Here's how OSHA evacuated their offices in the World Trade Center Sept. 11.

http://www.osha.gov/as/opa/911/pg20-22-jshq-v13-1-fall2001.pdf

Most old freight elevators don't have the sexy heat-sensitive buttons that cause the elevator to stop on the fire floor. And, most folks don't know where the freight elevators are... Plan the work, work the plan. If the elevator was out of service, these guys were going to carry their co-worker down eight floors.

Mike Mabee had been an EMT, police officer and Army reservist before joining OSHA. After the Trade Center (and his office) collapsed, he gave first aid to first responders, and subsequently did several tours in Iraq, retiring as a command sergeant major. He still works for OSHA. He's a true hero, and a good friend.
 
Hello Gents ( and ladies)

A modern elevator will have phase I, and phase II fire service. There will usually be two recall floors. A main recall floor, and a secondary recall floor. If a fire alarm is recieved by the building system, a set of dry contacts open, and the elevator(s) make a buzzing sound, the fireman hat light turns on, and the door close at a reduced torque. The elevator returnes to the main recall floor, opens the doors, and the buzzer turns off, but the fireman hat remains lit. If the fire department wants to use the elevator to effect a rescue, they can turn a phase II key on in the car operating panel. While on phase II they can operate the elevator from within. Constant pressure on a floor button will send the car to that floor where it will sit with the doors closed. Constant pressure on the dooropen butten will open the car door. Relase of the open button will cause the doors to close. Once the doors are fully open they will stay open. If the phase II switch is turned off the elevator will revert back to phase I and return to the recall floor. The phase II switch also has an option to hold the elevator at the chosen floor. While the elevator is on phase II the fireman has the option to cancel floor calls he has already put in.

If the initiating device is a heat, or smoke sensor on the main recall floor the elevator will recall to the secondary recall floor. usually another floor with ingress, and egress such as a garage, or terrace. During the firemans operation all hall buttons become inoperative.

The operation to reset from firemans operation varies with the different controllers. Most will reset when the elevator(s) are at the recall floor, and on phase I only. The bulding fire alarm must be reset, and not be in alarm.A
qualified person must insert a key in the recall floor hall station and turn to reset, or bypass then turn the key switch to off.

Firemen have the option to capture the elevator for non fire emergencies by using the key switch in the recall floor hall station. The elevator will go on phase I independant of the bulding fire alarm system.


I hope this answers some of the questions.


Glenn D
 
The OP should do a search for "defend in place" and " shelter in
place"

These are the procedures used in the event of a fire in medical facilities where the patients are incapable of self rescue.

The handicapped do not always get out they gotta stay and wait for assistance.
 
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