Am I allowed to post here?

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Cold Fusion

Senior Member
Location
way north
As slander! :mad: In well over 12,000 posts, I believe that I have never once pointed out that rule. (What never? No never! What never? Well, hardly ever!) Truly, I cannot recall ever having done such a thing, and I am certain I do not deserve the "always quick to point out" statement. ...
Well slap me around the block with a Nerf bat - twice. Until you straightened me out, I would have been certain you had pointed out a few times that while the moderators tried their best to make fair decisions, they were not infact obligated to do so. I also recall a thread where you agreed that some of the decisions made were based on the "phase of the moon". Perhaps my memory is in error on that one as well.

I stand morose, dejected, and corrected.

.... You astound me!...
Yeah, I knew that.:roll:

cf
 

jaylectricity

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Occupation
licensed journeyman electrician
Let me chime in here. This is the internet. As a whole, we are anonymous. Anybody can pretend to be anybody.

How could any lawsuit single out this website when its members can be anybody?

What information did I offer when I joined? My name? Did I even offer my real name?

Anybody who loses a lawsuit based on information given on the threads on this website probably has a fool for lawyer...probably himself...

haha...a DIY lawyer!
 

mivey

Senior Member
Let me chime in here. This is the internet. As a whole, we are anonymous. Anybody can pretend to be anybody.

How could any lawsuit single out this website when its members can be anybody?

What information did I offer when I joined? My name? Did I even offer my real name?

Anybody who loses a lawsuit based on information given on the threads on this website probably has a fool for lawyer...probably himself...

haha...a DIY lawyer!
That's him your honor! The one with the silver dome on his head.:grin:
 

Rick Christopherson

Senior Member
By contrast, none of the things that an electrician would do, from "means and methods" to the NEC itself, are taught in an engineering degree program. There is no reason to anticipate that a person with a BSEE knows anything at all about safely performing electrical installation work.
And likewise, there is also no reason to automatically assume the contrary. I find this whole "Us versus Them" discussion to be very disturbing and egotistical (yes, I know you are a PE, I am speaking in general). The NEC was not created solely by electricians, but jointly by electricians and engineers (and obviously some idiot must have invited a lawyer or two just to screw up the wording :grin:).

Yeah, there is a whole pile of engineers that lack the common sense to know how to turn a screwdriver, but there is equally a whole pile of electricians that are equally inept in their own right. I have seen questions posed on this forum from allegedly licensed electricians that were so patently pedantic that I was convinced they were from a DIY homeowner that also didn't know how to turn a screwdriver, yet they were gleefully answered by the forum.

Many of the tools and methods that you take for granted were in fact developed or set forth by the very engineers that you claim cannot fathom this industry. Many of the safety features and procedures you claim the engineer cannot fathom, were actually developed by the engineers.

In the 20 or 30 years that I have been associated with this industry, there is one aspect that I see most often with many (but of course not all) electricians, that I take great umbrage with, and that is the belief that as an electrician they believe that they hold a magical key to the locker of electrical knowledge. Maybe this comes about because they so frequently have to deal with people that have zero background, but they then forget that not everyone is as clueless as their daily customer.

I think that some of the responses in this thread are following this same omnipotent stance. That's fine when you are dealing with an old lady from Pasadena, but when you make this assumption across the board and including dealing with people that are more savvy than a blue-haired widow, it gets a little more iffy.

How could any lawsuit single out this website when its members can be anybody?

Because the owner of the website is not anonymous.
While the owner is not anonymous, the Law has already stated that he cannot be held liable for the information presented by forum users on his website forum. If a lawsuit were to be filed, it could only be against the individual presenting the information, and the owner of the website is held faultless, by Law.
 
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charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
. . . the Law has already stated that he cannot be held liable for the information presented by forum users on his website forum. If a lawsuit were to be filed, it could only be against the individual presenting the information, and the owner of the website is held faultless, by Law.
Forgive my skepticism, but I find that assertion surprising, and I tend to doubt that you are right. But regardless of what the law has to say, or not say, anybody can sue anybody else for any reason, with our without just cause, and the person getting sued will not enjoy the experience. Mike has made it a policy, and has asked the moderators to enforce the policy, not to allow how-to questions from non-electricians. I think that fact would speak in his favor, in the event he does get sued.

 

Rick Christopherson

Senior Member
But regardless of what the law has to say, or not say, anybody can sue anybody else for any reason, with our without just cause, and the person getting sued will not enjoy the experience.

Mike has made it a policy, and has asked the moderators to enforce the policy, not to allow how-to questions from non-electricians. I think that fact would speak in his favor, in the event he does get sued.
Your two statements contradict each other. If someone can be sued regardless of the circumstances, then it makes no difference that Mike Holt has made demands that exceed the requirements of the law, or if he simply resides behind the protection of the law. The case is either dismissed as unfounded under the law, or he actually has to argue the case to show that he has this policy. It will actually cost him more to make the showing that his policy prevails, as opposed to simply getting the case dismissed on legal foundation.

He is probably more exposed to legal repercussions by attempting to enforce this, and failing, than he would be if he did nothing. His attempt to control information could be used against him by a savvy attorney to eliminate the very protection that he was afforded by default. It shows awareness, and therefore, liability.
 

topgone

Senior Member
He is probably more exposed to legal repercussions by attempting to enforce this, and failing, than he would be if he did nothing. His attempt to control information could be used against him by a savvy attorney to eliminate the very protection that he was afforded by default. It shows awareness, and therefore, liability.
May I ask then; which is far better, actually exerting effort to prevent posters from giving info detrimental to life and limb or keeping a blind eye knowing that if posters offer bad tips, they are liable for what they do?
In my honest opinion, being proactive is better than being reactive. I do agree that getting sued for any reason is a bad experience for anyone here.
 

drbond24

Senior Member
So why doesn't the same policy applies to engineering advice asked by electricians?

iwire said:
I suspect that is because simple engineering task are in fact part of en electricians job.

Iwire makes a good point. In order to prevent what weressl is worried about, a perfectly clear line would have to be drawn that details exactly what is 'engineering' and what isn't. In my opinion, that would be nearly (if not completely) impossible to do.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Here, Masters are allowed to do the engineering and drawings for submittal for certain structure types, sizes, and $ amounts.
 
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