What amp?

[roger]

I'm aware that the NEC requires such to be calculated and adequate power to serve such load, i.e. general lighting, but where does it require lighting outlets be installed?

(...other than the bathroom circuit being used for a lighting outlet.)

See 210.70 for the specifics.

Roger

 

[iwire]

i'm aware that the nec requires such to be calculated and adequate power to serve such load, i.e. General lighting, but where does it require lighting outlets be installed?

210.70? ...............................

 

[e57]

e57,

Say, this is a 100 sq.ft. house,
(there is a website for constructing such a house!)
and NO Laundry Room,
Then where does the Laundry Circuit go?

If the circuit does not 'go' anywhere,
then what does the NEC say about it?

Would that make the minimum to be 4 circuits?

Just read a new post. Someone did cover this consideration.

But, what does the NEC literally say?

Hmm, life in the tool shed... Jail cells are bigger....

As for the laundry circuit - find a place... I have stuck 'em in closets - sometime poeple want one later... As for the NEC - it say it "shall" be installed, with 2 exceptions in multi-family dwellings only - if you were to have a 100' 'house' I'm sure the troll who lives there could find a use for it....

Now - while on the topic of "Laundry Recepticals and Circuits".... Long ago I worked for a now 90 year old EC - this was his take - and I agree with him - the Laundry Circuit - is not for the "Washer Machine" - it is for the laundry area - where ever that might be... He claimed, and 480 sparky should confirm this from his vast library.... That the "laundry circuit" pre-dated electric washer machines for many - it was for the iron.... In defense of this: Neither the code requiring the laundry receptical, or the laundry circuit mention an appliance....

 

[Volta]

Now - while on the topic of "Laundry Recepticals and Circuits".... Long ago I worked for a now 90 year old EC - this was his take - and I agree with him - the Laundry Circuit - is not for the "Washer Machine" - it is for the laundry area - where ever that might be... He claimed, and 480 sparky should confirm this from his vast library.... That the "laundry circuit" pre-dated electric washer machines for many - it was for the iron.... In defense of this: Neither the code requiring the laundry receptical, or the laundry circuit mention an appliance....

There are references to heating appliances, but the earliest version I can find mentioning "laundry" is 1933:
2012 b. (Fine Print) ...At least one receptacle outlet to be installed near to each permanently installed laundry tub or set of such tubs.

Can't find anything similar in 1930, don't have a 1931.

Wasn't mandatory until 1937, similar wording, but with shall.

 

[e57]

There are references to heating appliances, but the earliest version I can find mentioning "laundry" is 1933:
2012 b. (Fine Print) ...At least one receptacle outlet to be installed near to each permanently installed laundry tub or set of such tubs.

Can't find anything similar in 1930, don't have a 1931.

Wasn't mandatory until 1937, similar wording, but with shall.

So apparently these coincide????

Washer design improved during the 1930s; the mechanism was now enclosed within a cabinet; more attention was paid to electrical safety; spin dryers were introduced, to replace the dangerous power wringers of the day.
~~~~
By 1940, 60% of the 25,000,000 wired homes in the United States had an electric washing machine. Many of these machines featured a power wringer, although built-in spin dryers were not uncommon.

 

[Smart $]

See 210.70 for the specifics.

Roger

210.70? ...............................

OK... I concede that one or more lighting outlets are required to be installed.

Going back to this comment...

Generally speaking, lighting outlets are required by the NEC, not actual illumination

...we could say illumination is required by...

210.70(A)(2)(b) For dwelling units, attached garages, and detached
garages with electric power, at least one wall switch–
controlled lighting outlet shall be installed to provide illumination
on the exterior side of outdoor entrances or exits
with grade level access. ...

Granted a lighting outlet cannot provide illumination without a "luminaire" connected to it, which 210.70(A)(2)(b) certainly seems to imply the "luminaire" too must be installed.

But getting back to the original question posed by Pierre, there is no lighting outlet required to be installed in my surrealistic one-room dwelling beyond the one on the exposed-bathroom circuit, because the habitable room and the bathroom are the same room.

The questionable area, "without any details", is an exterior lighting outlet required per above quote. Would one be required if the exterior entrance/exit is accessed via an exterior ramp or stairs to an above-grade platform at the door?

 

[iwire]

Not saying we can not discuss it more but Roger and I are well aware of 210.70(A)(2)(b) and I am sure that is why Roger had said

Generally speaking, lighting outlets are required by the NEC, not actual illumination

We have had long heated threads with inspectors insisting lighting fixtures must be installed to satisfy the NEC.

 

[Smart $]

Not saying we can not discuss it more but Roger and I are well aware of 210.70(A)(2)(b) and I am sure that is why Roger had said

We have had long heated threads with inspectors insisting lighting fixtures must be installed to satisfy the NEC.

Further discussion about illumination not necessary... as it is always subject to interpretation

 

[roger]

Further discussion about illumination not necessary...

Whew, that's a good thing.


As Bob said, I included "Generally speaking" for a reason, although there are some requirements for illumination in the NEC, most are in building codes.


Roger

 

[S'mise]

Thank you Pierre for the thought provoking question.

If there are no details, the minimum number of circuits to a dwelling is how many?

This has been a test question for awhile.

Anyone care to take a stab at this question.
Hint - the answer is in the NEC.

Lighting outlets are intended for illumination. I don't care if illumination is actually installed or not. To answer the origional question; the required lighting outlets need to be considered as well as the other required circuits.
Right?

So the answer is what 5?

 

[S'mise]

Thank you Pierre for the thought provoking question.

If there are no details, the minimum number of circuits to a dwelling is how many?

This has been a test question for awhile.

Anyone care to take a stab at this question.
Hint - the answer is in the NEC.

Lighting outlets are intended for illumination. I don't care if illumination is actually installed or not. To answer the origional question; the required lighting outlets need to be considered as well as the other required circuits.
Right?

So the answer is what 5?

 

[LarryFine]

So the answer is what 5?

Does that mean I win? :grin:

 

[iMuse97]

Not saying we can not discuss it more but Roger and I are well aware of 210.70(A)(2)(b) and I am sure that is why Roger had said





We have had long heated threads with inspectors insisting lighting fixtures must be installed to satisfy the NEC.

I've put plenty of porcelains on foyer and dining chandelier boxes to keep those inspectors happy. :grin: Its an interesting decorating statement.

As to the minimum circuits on a home, I'm going with 4.

 

[S'mise]

Does that mean I win? :grin:

Lary wins! Come over for your prize, left over holloween candy.

 

[LarryFine]

Lary wins! Come over for your prize, left over holloween candy.

I'll be zhere azh shoon azh I grow shome more teef.

 

[dexterg]

In my area 20 amp on everything. AHJ doesnt allow 15amp circuits.