AL Conductors & Use of anti-oxident

[zappy]

"assumption..sumption...whats yo function"? Hey ,I just noticed the first 3 letters in that word! Never really thought about it! I think there is a reason for using anti-oxidant on aliminum conductors, just seems like over-kill on a temp install, and to demand that it be used is a little over the top!!

If I was a inspector, and I left a job without finding one violation I would feel like, well I don't know what I would feel like. I don't think it wouldn't be good though.

 

[tom baker]

UL tests the lugs with no de-ox (testing it loading with max amps and repeating test for many cycles) If it fails then it is repeated with de-ox.

 

[cowboyjwc]

If I was a inspector, and I left a job without finding one violation I would feel like, well I don't know what I would feel like. I don't think it wouldn't be good though.

You feel like you're dealing with a good contractor who knows his stuff.:grin:

The saying in our office is "it's much easier to sign the job card than write a correction notice."

 

[glene77is]

Interesting, you remove and re-torque without trimming?
IMO that is not a great way to go. :smile:

iWire,

I understand that the NEC may not "require" anti-oxide, in general. Having repaired alum wire fire damage (as you probably have also), I don't enjoy the damage caused, and protential for fire.

Here is my method (derived from the Aronstein website):
(1) remove the connector,
(2) re-dip,
(3)
(a) scrape off with pliers,
(b) cutting into the anodized alum oxide
(c) pulling anti-ox directly into the fresh surface.

I've tried to read everything there is about this subject
and just don't think there is bullet-proof method of handling aluminum. Combining that with a copper wire in the joint just adds to the potential problem. I have repaired #12 circuit joints (like most everybody), and Service Lateral Crimped joints, and Larger cables terminated in large circuit breakers, and Service feeders from the Meter and Service feeders into the Main Lugs panel, and Service Risers feeding into the top of Meter sockets. All the above refers to Aluminum cabling. I wonder if there is a problem here?

There are some methods, other than Anti-Oxide, and I've tried a few.
I like the Copalum crimp connector, but at $3. per joint (#12 size) and the $1000 crimper tool required by Tyco, I just don't see that as being economical. At least not on small jobs, or single unit repairs. The one I have used is made by King. King has a alloy block with three holes, three set screws and filled with silicon, all in a neat plastic flip shell. I've used King connectors to do 45 recepticals in a house, for one example, and they worked OK. King connectors were about $2.00 each.

On the other hand,
the inconsistent use/nonuse of Alum Anti_Oxide helps pay my rent.
I try to bill for my repairs.

I do wonder why there is not a clear cut mandate from NEC to use the Anti-Oxide. There must be a good reason for NEC's position. Wire manufacturers don't want to say there may be a potential problem with their product, its installation by electricians, or its being affected by some environmental factor.

So, "who" is to say?
Maybe, the Consumer Product Safety Commission?
Maybe, Underwriter's Lab?

Maybe there is NO problem, after all.
Just our imagination?
And, I'll keep making a little money fixing the fire damage.

Comments are welcome

 

[glene77is]

I put it on the wire and work in with emory cloth,,,,,,,but that's not really what concerns me,,,,,99% of the time the threaded lug seizes after a few years of heat,,,,,so I ALWAYS put it on the THREADS and screw the terminal lug back down tight. Can be removed years later with ease. (or retorqued)

McClary,

I DO LIKE THAT METHOD!

(1) Dip (2) Abrade.
I noticed that sequence, "I put it on ... and work it with emory cloth..."

I never thought about the torque screw. Good Idea!

 

[LarryFine]

If I was a inspector, and I left a job without finding one violation I would feel like, well I don't know what I would feel like. I don't think it wouldn't be good though.

Then I'd vie to be your biggest disappointment.

 

[hurk27]

If I was a inspector, and I left a job without finding one violation I would feel like, well I don't know what I would feel like. I don't think it wouldn't be good though.

This kind of says that you would be wanting to find something wrong?
to me this is a wrong way to look at inspecting, allowing your own personal feelings to drive you to try to find something wrong is not the way yo go, not finding something wrong should make you fell happy toward the electrician to know he's on top of the code requirements. this is kind of looking at the job as a half empty glass instead of a half full glass, we have a few inspectors here that are like this, and it is a pain to deal with them, leave them something small to find and they green tag and are happy, but I think it is sad for them to go through life always looking for only what is wrong rather then looking for what is right or good.

 

[augie47]

I've seen very few jobs of any size that, if I wanted to spend enough time and dig deep enough, I could find a violation.
I hope I never reach that point. I look for (a) what's dangerous (b) a violation that indicates the electrician is not up to date on Code changes, and (c) minor items that can be corrected or noted to the electrician for "training". Perhaps I'm not doing my job, but (a) gets a red tag, (b) 50/50 depending on the violation, and (c) "have a good day".
With all the "bad" work we don't even get to inspect, I can't get horribly upset over 1 box with a 1 wire fill problem.

 

[hurk27]

I've seen very few jobs of any size that, if I wanted to spend enough time and dig deep enough, I could find a violation.
I hope I never reach that point. I look for (a) what's dangerous (b) a violation that indicates the electrician is not up to date on Code changes, and (c) minor items that can be corrected or noted to the electrician for "training". Perhaps I'm not doing my job, but (a) gets a red tag, (b) 50/50 depending on the violation, and (c) "have a good day".
With all the "bad" work we don't even get to inspect, I can't get horribly upset over 1 box with a 1 wire fill problem.

I wish there were many more like you Augie

I wish all inspectors would learn not to "sweat the small stuff"

 

[TOOL_5150]

That settles it: Use Southwire cable and SqD panelboards.

Hay! Thats what I use! :grin:

~Matt

 

[romeo]

AL Conductors & Use of anti-oxident

This kind of says that you would be wanting to find something wrong?
to me this is a wrong way to look at inspecting, allowing your own personal feelings to drive you to try to find something wrong is not the way yo go, not finding something wrong should make you fell happy toward the electrician to know he's on top of the code requirements. this is kind of looking at the job as a half empty glass instead of a half full glass, we have a few inspectors here that are like this, and it is a pain to deal with them, leave them something small to find and they green tag and are happy, but I think it is sad for them to go through life always looking for only what is wrong rather then looking for what is right or good.

I totally agree. I feel happy to do an inspection and find no violations. I sign off and my job is done,no re inspection or violation notice to wright . Makes for mutual respect.