use partition for 12- and 14-gauge NM in the same box?

[Umlaut]

I got dinged on an inspection for putting 12/2 and 14/2 into the same metal box. The inspector said that I needed to have a physical partition between the 12/2 and 14/2 circuits. Unfortunately, I wasn't around for the inspection, and my customer can't really recall exactly what the inspector said. No written tag.

The cables in question feed their own devices and aren't connected. That is, I didn't mix 12- and 14-gauge wire on the same circuit. Certainly, 725.136 tells us that Class 2 circuits can't be in the same box as power circuits, but both of these circuits are 120-volt.


Any idea what the inspector might be thinking?

 

[iwire]

The inspector is a nincompoop.

 

[goldstar]

Any idea what the inspector might be thinking?

Just 2 more days and I'm off to Bora Bora

 

[iwire]

Just 2 more days and I'm off to Bora Bora

:grin: :grin:

 

[electricmanscott]

I got dinged on an inspection for putting 12/2 and 14/2 into the same metal box. The inspector said that I needed to have a physical partition between the 12/2 and 14/2 circuits. Unfortunately, I wasn't around for the inspection, and my customer can't really recall exactly what the inspector said. No written tag.

The cables in question feed their own devices and aren't connected. That is, I didn't mix 12- and 14-gauge wire on the same circuit. ?

It wouldn't even matter if you did mix wire sizes as long as the breaker was the correct size for the smallest wire.

You better call the so called "inspector" and find out what the deal is. If this guy thinks this is a violation he has NO business inspecting anything. Pathetic.

 

[ivsenroute]

Bad call. Not a problem

 

[davedottcom]

I bet he's from the future and we'll all have to do that someday!

Ask which code cycle he's using... probably 2023!




Seriously, he's just mistaken... it happens.

 

[electricmanscott]

Seriously, he's just mistaken... it happens.

Bad call. Not a problem

Sure it's obviously a mistake. But we don't know that the guy will see that he made a mistake yet so I wouldn't say not a problem. He may insist this has to be done and the fact that the electrician has to deal with this is a problem.

The fact that he even came up with this says allot about his abilities as an inspector and what it says is amateur. IMHO :grin:

 

[iwire]

I see this like Scott, this is not something that is a gray area and can be chocked up to simply having a brain fart. :grin: This is call is pathetic and it really makes me question the inspectors qualifications.

To inspectors, If you walk onto a ECs job and right away see a truly boneheaded violation (say all the device boxes are mounted backward) you cannot tell me this would not send up a red flag about this ECs qualifications. You would not be cutting the guy any slack at all.

 

[infinity]

I got dinged on an inspection for putting 12/2 and 14/2 into the same metal box. The inspector said that I needed to have a physical partition between the 12/2 and 14/2 circuits. Unfortunately, I wasn't around for the inspection, and my customer can't really recall exactly what the inspector said. No written tag.

I would hope that the customer got this wrong and the inspector is not really this dumb.

 

[davedottcom]

I guess I just picture some young gun, trying his best...

He's Probably just a moron though!

 

[480sparky]

You'd better put a divider or partition between them. Both in the metal switch box and the metal panel they originate from.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I bet he's from the future and we'll all have to do that someday!

Ask which code cycle he's using... probably 2023!




Seriously, he's just mistaken... it happens.

We he needs to come back from the future, It's ones like this that get me ruffled.

 

[rwreuter]

i bet the customer misunderstood him. not unusual since most customers don't understand nec lingo

 

[augie47]

That's often the problem with hearsay rejections. Talk with the inspector and ask for a code reference. I suggest asking in the "so I can learn" mode first.
I leave notes..well at least scribbles according to some E/Cs... and Code references with my rejections and it is still misunderstood (of course some recipients don't own code books).
Talk to the source.

 

[ceb58]

The bad part is IF the customer did not misunderstand what the inspector told him it now makes the EC look bad. The customer has no way of knowing what is right and wrong. Most will tend to believe what the inspector says because he is the inspector. They do not think an inspector can or should be wrong.

 

[macmikeman]

The bad part is IF the customer did not misunderstand what the inspector told him it now makes the EC look bad. The customer has no way of knowing what is right and wrong. Most will tend to believe what the inspector says because he is the inspector. They do not think an inspector can or should be wrong.

This is my biggest pet peeve with incompetent electrical inspectors. The problem related here is magnified double when the customer is a repeat general contractor. An incompetent inspector can cost a hard working, code adhering ec plenty by a simple lack of code knowledge.

 

[cpal]

I.

The cables in question feed their own devices and aren't connected. That is, I didn't mix 12- and 14-gauge wire on the same circuit. Certainly, 725.136 tells us that Class 2 circuits can't be in the same box as power circuits, but both of these circuits are 120-volt.

Are all the E.G.C. connected together??

 

[Paelectrician]

No offense,but it wouldn't be confusion if you had attended the inspection instead of the customer dealing with it.

 

[Umlaut]

Wow! Thanks for all of the support. I've lurked here a long time, and only just signed-up because I Wanted to ask this question to see if the older dogs could provide any insight. I am happy that you guys have helped me.

Indeed, as electricmanscott mentions, it wouldn't matter if I was mixing gauges on the same circuit; I'd just down-rate the breaker. I don't like to do this unless it's really necessary; it's too easy for someone (like the home owner) to later see the 12/2 in the service panel and "upgrade" the 15A breaker to 20A. And it makes the inspection and maintenance more complicated.

I have a voice mail into the inspector. As augie47 suggests, I'm asking "so I can learn it and make it safe", but I was hoping someone here would think this is a common inspector mistake, and that a certain Article is often misinterpreted ... or that it was a common local exception for some reason. Next week I should hear back, and I'll share the answer I receive.

davedottcom is joking about a future regulation coming back to haunt me, but I was actually confused about the local code; I studied 2005 and 2008 because that's what passed my tests. But the local authority still uses 2005, and I actually thought they used 1996. Is there anything hiding in the 2002 code that I haven't encountered yet which applies? (Or is he not joking? Future code doesn't -- it doesn't come back ... back from the future. D-d-does it?)

The most likely explanation is that the customer misunderstood. There are plastic boxes on the site which share Class2 and comms wiring with power circuits, and maybe someone forgot to insert one of the organge divider cards. But the customer seemed pretty ceratin that it was this one box--a six gang in the kitchen--which mixes a 14-gague lighting circuit, a 12-gague lighting circuit, and a 12-gague junction point for one of the kitchen appliance circuits. Since the customer said "12 gauge and 14 gauge", it must be this box.