210.5(c)

[Dennis Alwon]

I have to disagree

2008 210.5(C) requires us to identify by 'phase or line and system'

We do not but IMO the NEC does require it.

Does this not seem odd esp. since it is not req. when only one system is present. I understand identifying the two systems and when MC is used on a system that does not use black that it would need to be retaped, but..... gee whiz.

 

[iwire]

Does this not seem odd esp. since it is not req. when only one system is present.

Yes it seems odd but I do not read much into it other then no one has put in a proposal to require phase marking in one system buildings.

We have done MC jobs where we used MC of the proper colors, it sucked and you know as the job wrapped up people 'cheated' if they where out of the correct color.

 

[ptonsparky]

We are working at small industrials that have been around for 60 years. We put a new MCC, 1 of 6, in one of them a few years ago. I looked at this section and went "yea, right". There is no way I could comply with that requirement. Inspectors never even blinked. We used BOY on phase wires, but the rest...

 

[iwire]

Never trust a color to mean anything.

 

[nyhockey]

With LV 2 wire MC the ungrounded conductor is already black so no color coding will be required.

:roll:

210.5(C)Ungruonded Conductors. When the premise wiring system contain BRANCH CIRCUITS from more than one voltage system, EACH UNGROUNDED CONDUCTOR at ALL terminations, connections, and splice points, SHALL be by color coding


I think this says we must do it.

 

[nyhockey]

Never trust a color to mean anything.

OUCH, That is UGLY

 

[augie47]

It's been an uphill battle in my area to obtain compliance with 210.5 since it's inception. I've managed to get placards and correct color coding at panels and with HRs and MWBCs. I doubt I'll live long enough to get FULL compliance down to MC. I'll continue to work toward that goal, but that's one tough row to hoe in this area.
Inspections on any facility large enough to have multiple voltages are normally intense training sessions as it is.

 

[nyhockey]

It's been an uphill battle in my area to obtain compliance with 210.5 since it's inception. I've managed to get placards and correct color coding at panels and with HRs and MWBCs. I doubt I'll live long enough to get FULL compliance down to MC. I'll continue to work toward that goal, but that's one tough row to hoe in this area.
Inspections on any facility large enough to have multiple voltages are normally intense training sessions as it is.

I can't wait to see this applied in NYC. Not enough inspectors.

 

[augie47]

It just takes time. I think this was an '05 Code change and most of our State skipped '05. The feeders and panels haven't been a major adjustment, the MC cables are.

 

[iwire]

OUCH, That is UGLY

What?

You don't use Yellow, Green, Brown, Gray for 208Y/120?

 

[infinity]

:roll:

210.5(C)Ungruonded Conductors. When the premise wiring system contain BRANCH CIRCUITS from more than one voltage system, EACH UNGROUNDED CONDUCTOR at ALL terminations, connections, and splice points, SHALL be by color coding


I think this says we must do it.

I still disagree. You identify which colors are used for ungrounded conductors on each system. There is no need to re-identify every black (or other color) conductor in an MC cable by phase.

 

[iwire]

I still disagree. You identify which colors are used for ungrounded conductors on each system. There is no need to re-identify every black (or other color) conductor in an MC cable by phase.

I cannot see how you can disagree here, to me it is very clear.


2008 210.5(C) requires us to identify by 'phase or line and system'


How is a conductor in an MC cable identified by phase or line if every phase uses black?

 

[infinity]

I cannot see how you can disagree here, to me it is very clear.


2008 210.5(C) requires us to identify by 'phase or line and system'


How is a conductor in an MC cable identified by phase or line if every phase uses black?

Where does is say that at every device you need to re-identfy a black conductor if it's on say the red phase?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Where does is say that at every device you need to re-identfy a black conductor if it's one say the red phase?

I have to agree with the others. It states "at all termination, connections and splice joints".

 

[nyhockey]

I have to agree with the others. It states "at all termination, connections and splice joints".

Yeah what he said

 

[infinity]

I have to agree with the others. It states "at all termination, connections and splice joints".

So I'll ask who has ever done this? By the way I'm still not convinced.

 

[nyhockey]

So I'll ask who has ever done this? By the way I'm still not convinced.

We (NYC) are just getting ready to go by the 2008 NEC, and while going over the 2008. This was my question and I wanted to make sure I was reading it correctly. I cant see an inspector checking this. A floormight have 500+ openings.

 

[infinity]

We (NYC) are just getting ready to go by the 2008 NEC, and while going over the 2008. This was my question and I wanted to make sure I was reading it correctly. I cant see an inspector checking this. A floormight have 500+ openings.

NYC is it's own special animal. With no rough-in inspections and limited number of inspections their system boarders on self-certification when it comes to electrical installations.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So I'll ask who has ever done this? By the way I'm still not convinced.

I truly doubt it is done but as I read it that is what it says. Perhaps it was not intended that way but...

 

[iwire]

So I'll ask who has ever done this? By the way I'm still not convinced.

I have done it, we generally don't do it but I still cannot see anything unclear about what the section says.

This is from Stallcup's.