Arc-Fault Protection

[Trowbridge - Martin]

2008 NEC 210.12(b) All 120 volt , single phase, 15 and 20 amp branch circuits supplying OUTLETS installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, rec rooms, closets, hallways or other simlar rooms shall be prtectected by afci.
Revision to this code code section adds that exception to these areas excludes kitchens, bathrooms, garages, basements and other similar rooms from afci protection.
Question: are all outlets (lights fans ect) , per outlet definition in code, within these rooms/spaces, exempt from afci - or just the receptacles?
Thanks, Tom

 

[augie47]

Welcome to the Forum:

To me the wording states the AFCI must be on the branch circuit protecting outlets (receptacle & other) in specific rooms. If that branch circuit does not supply THOSE specified areas, then no AFCI is required.

 

[jwjrw]

Welcome to the Forum:

To me the wording states the AFCI must be on the branch circuit protecting outlets (receptacle & other) in specific rooms. If that branch circuit does not supply THOSE specified areas, then no AFCI is required.

I see it as any outlet(see definition of outlet) in those areas to need arc fault protection.
Augie I say a MH drawing with something about a flood light switch in a bedroom did or didnt need arc protection do you remember seeing something like that?

 

[Trowbridge - Martin]

AFCI protection

AFCI protection

Suppose a large room in house has living room and dining room and kitchen. Each room has several high hat lights. Are lights in kitchen ceiling portion of this large room exempt from afci even though lights in dining/living, a feet feet away, must be afci? Says so for 'outlets' but really in feild?

 

[jwjrw]

Yes kitchen lights are not required to be arc fault

 

[al hildenbrand]

Suppose a large room in house has living room and dining room and kitchen. Each room has several high hat lights. Are lights in kitchen ceiling portion of this large room exempt from afci even though lights in dining/living, a feet feet away, must be afci? Says so for 'outlets' but really in feild?

Yup. Really. I did the wiring for a dwelling that had the very space you are "supposing".

If all the outlets supplied by a branch circuit are in "similar rooms or areas", to those not listed as requiring AFCI, then one may install AFCI at one's option, one is not required to provide AFCI to that branch circuit.

So, really, strictly speaking, the Dining "area" light that is physically just inches away from the Kitchen "area" light on the plans are really in different "areas" as far as 210.12(B) is concerned.

The AHJ has no basis, by Code, to require AFCI on the Kitchen area light if the branch circuit supplies Outlets in areas not listed in 210.12(B).

 

[jwjrw]

As long as you pull your non arc circuit in the kitchen and it does not extend out of the kitchen you are fine.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Augie I saw a MH drawing with something about a flood light switch in a bedroom did or didnt need arc protection do you remember seeing something like that?

The question you raise here, a few years ago, resulted in the longest thread that this Forum still has.

The definition of Outlet is something good minds can spend a lot of time on.

 

[al hildenbrand]

As long as you pull your non arc circuit in the kitchen and it does not extend out of the kitchen you are fine.

I would list all of the "non-living areas". That is, "does not extend out of the Kitchen, Bath, Shop, Garage, Exterior, Attic, Unfinished Basement, and similar rooms or areas.

 

[One-eyed Jack]

The question you raise here, a few years ago, resulted in the longest thread that this Forum still has.

The definition of Outlet is something good minds can spend a lot of time on.

Such as an outlet is an outlet is an outlet. I consider a box with wires in it for a luminare an outlet, box with a switch is an oultlet,box with a duplex receptacle is an outlet. That being said the lighting" outlets" in the kitchen area would require AFCI protection.

 

[jwjrw]

[/B]


Such as an outlet is an outlet is an outlet. I consider a box with wires in it for a luminare an outlet, box with a switch is an oultlet,box with a duplex receptacle is an outlet. That being said the lighting" outlets" in the kitchen area would require AFCI protection.

No the code says arc fault IS NOT required in kitchens. That includes kitchen
lights.

And the reason some question the definition of an outlet is because does a switch utilize electricity?
Thats the argument anyway.

 

[One-eyed Jack]

No the code says arc fault IS NOT required in kitchens. That includes kitchen
lights.

And the reason some question the definition of an outlet is because does a switch utilize electricity?
Thats the argument anyway.

A better question would be have you ever seen a Switch "ARC" and burn up the box and all associated wireing in the box? I would say that you have.

 

[jwjrw]

A better question would be have you ever seen a Switch "ARC" and burn up the box and all associated wireing in the box? I would say that you have.

I am not disputing what you are saying is true. I am simply pointing out where the code requires arc fault protection. And kitchen lights are in the kitchen and do not require it.
The term utilize to me means the "outlet" makes use of electricity to do something like light a light.
Without a clear definition of what exactly is an outlet the argument cant be won.

 

[480sparky]

I am not disputing what you are saying is true. I am simply pointing out where the code requires arc fault protection. And kitchen lights are in the kitchen and do not require it.
The term utilize to me means the "outlet" makes use of electricity to do something like light a light.
Without a clear definition of what exactly is an outlet the argument cant be won.

Most folk agree a switch is not an outlet.

 

[jwjrw]

Most folk agree a switch is not an outlet.

I do. AND the handbook says a switch is a DEVICE. Not an OUTLET. To me that ends that argument with MOST FOLKS around here......BUT NOT ALL!

 

[al hildenbrand]

I do. AND the handbook says a switch is a DEVICE. Not an OUTLET.

A duplex receptacle is a DEVICE also.

 

[480sparky]

......BUT NOT ALL!

I think I just said that.

 

[jwjrw]

I think I just said that.

Hey I was agreeing with you!:grin:

 

[al hildenbrand]

AND the handbook says a switch is a DEVICE. Not an OUTLET.

Can you provide that citation from the Handbook that says a switch is not an outlet?

Or, can you provide that citation from the Handbook that states a device can't be an outlet?

 

[jwjrw]

Can you provide that citation from the Handbook that says a switch is not an outlet?

Or, can you provide that citation from the Handbook that states a device can't be an outlet?

All I can tell you that in plain english the nec says a device "carries or controls electric energy as its primary function. Sounds like a switch is a device.
Then it says an outlet utlizes electric energy.
It seems clear to me but maybe thats just me.....