Arc-Fault Protection

[al hildenbrand]

Then it says an outlet utlizes electric energy.

Think of the simple duplex receptacle in a home. Does the receptacle utilize energy in normal conditions? If it does, doesn't it burn up?

Look again at the words in the definition of Outlet. "Utilize" and "energy" are not there.

 

[jwjrw]

Think of the simple duplex receptacle in a home. Does the receptacle utilize energy in normal conditions? If it does, doesn't it burn up?

Look again at the words in the definition of Outlet. "Utilize" and "energy" are not there.

definition of an outlet- A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply UTILIZATION equipment. I was trying to rem it without looking it up.
REGUARDLESS a switch is NOT an OUTLET think what you want to but my AHJ says its not and thats all that matters to me! GOOD DAY SIR!!!!

 

[al hildenbrand]

. . . a switch is NOT an OUTLET. . . my AHJ says its not and thats all that matters to me!

Your AHJ makes the call in your jurisdiction. I'm not trying to get in the way of that.

Similarly, your AHJ is out of his/er jurisdiction here on the Forum. Here, on the Forum, your AHJ has an opinion, as do you, as do I.

Here, we are able to explore our opinions of the Code.

I was trying to rem it without looking it up.

In my opinion, your recollection of the meaning of Outlet is the popular meme, the popular idea. But the definition is only about current taken at a point on the wiring. . . that's a very different animal.

And what makes the DEVICE that is a receptacle in a RECEPTACLE OUTLET (a two-word term from Art. 100 Definitions) different from a DEVICE that is a switch, or for that matter, a DEVICE that is a Luminaire, such as a wall box mounted, cover plate covered P&S TMHWLECC hallway light?

 

[One-eyed Jack]

Your AHJ makes the call in your jurisdiction. I'm not trying to get in the way of that.

Similarly, your AHJ is out of his/er jurisdiction here on the Forum. Here, on the Forum, your AHJ has an opinion, as do you, as do I.

Here, we are able to explore our opinions of the Code.
In my opinion, your recollection of the meaning of Outlet is the popular meme, the popular idea. But the definition is only about current taken at a point on the wiring. . . that's a very different animal.

And what makes the DEVICE that is a receptacle in a RECEPTACLE OUTLET (a two-word term from Art. 100 Definitions) different from a DEVICE that is a switch, or for that matter, a DEVICE that is a Luminaire, such as a wall box mounted, cover plate covered P&S TMHWLECC hallway light?

What he said. I totaly agree with you Al. In these parts a switch is an outlet. If I failed to count switches as outlets I would not get paid for them. My Arc-faulting switch was utilizing electricity in a very destructive manner. :grin:

 

[480sparky]

....... If I failed to count switches as outlets I would not get paid for them. ...............

What does what you call it have to do with getting paid for it?

 

[jwjrw]

What does what you call it have to do with getting paid for it?

All I will say is I agree with the handbook definition of a device and an outlet. And that is not what you believe it is. There are many on here with more knowledge then I have who agree with me.

REGUARDLESS KITCHENS ARE EXEMPT FROM ARC FAULT.

 

[480sparky]

All I will say is I agree with the handbook definition of a device and an outlet. And that is not what you believe it is. There are many on here with more knowledge then I have who agree with me.

REGUARDLESS KITCHENS ARE EXEMPT FROM ARC FAULT.

I'm not asking about what the handbook calls it. I'm asking why you need to call it something in particular in order to get paid for it. In other words, you agree with the NECH simply because it has an impact on your bottom line? I don't understand the connection between the two.

 

[jwjrw]

I'm not asking about what the handbook calls it. I'm asking why you need to call it something in particular in order to get paid for it. In other words, you agree with the NECH simply because it has an impact on your bottom line? I don't understand the connection between the two.

I didnt mean to quote you sorry. It has nothing to do with getting paid. This whole thread got off topic I think......

 

[480sparky]

I didnt mean to quote you sorry. It has nothing to do with getting paid. This whole thread got off topic I think......

I think you picked up on someone else's comment.

What he said. I totaly agree with you Al. In these parts a switch is an outlet. If I failed to count switches as outlets I would not get paid for them. My Arc-faulting switch was utilizing electricity in a very destructive manner. :grin:

 

[al hildenbrand]

i say a mh drawing with something about a flood light switch in a bedroom did or didnt need arc protection . . .

. . . . . . .

 

[jwjrw]

. . . . . . .

I think it said it DID NOT need arc. I hope to find it because I think MH said it did not. Good debate I enjoyed it.

 

[One-eyed Jack]

What does what you call it have to do with getting paid for it?

LOL One of my previous employers quoted res.work by the outlet. Plan 89,s and 90,s typically had 55-60 outlets. Every box counted as an outlet. If we did not count it ,no pay.
It is true that the kitchen ,bathroom,and garage have been left out of the list in 210.12 b. Using this list and the word "outlet" are you saying that the lights in the kitchen,bathrooms,and garages are not required to be AFCI protected?

 

[jaylectricity]

LOL One of my previous employers quoted res.work by the outlet. Plan 89,s and 90,s typically had 55-60 outlets. Every box counted as an outlet. If we did not count it ,no pay.
It is true that the kitchen ,bathroom,and garage have been left out of the list in 210.12 b. Using this list and the word "outlet" are you saying that the lights in the kitchen,bathrooms,and garages are not required to be AFCI protected?

Yes, that is exactly what he (and I and many others) are saying. Of course if the bathroom lights are on the same circuit as the hall lights or the kitchen lights are on the same circuit as the dining room lights, then they will be AFCI protected by default.

 

[One-eyed Jack]

Yes, that is exactly what he (and I and many others) are saying. Of course if the bathroom lights are on the same circuit as the hall lights or the kitchen lights are on the same circuit as the dining room lights, then they will be AFCI protected by default.

IMO the AFCI requirement is industry driven and serves no useful function for the consumer. The CMP,s would do well to reconsider this device and drop it . Case in point it is totally asinine to imply that kitchen,bathroom,and garage lighting outlets are more or less prone to arc faults than the rest of the lighting outlets.

 

[jaylectricity]

Case in point it is totally asinine to imply that kitchen,bathroom,and garage lighting outlets are more or less prone to arc faults than the rest of the lighting outlets.

No argument there, especially when my cables run through bedroom walls and ceilings to get to the kitchen circuits.

 

[jwjrw]

I still cant figure out why kitchens etc are exempt from arc fault protection.
Makes no sense to me.

 

[480sparky]

I still cant figure out why kitchens etc are exempt from arc fault protection.
Makes no sense to me.

Who says the Code is supposed to make sense?

 

[One-eyed Jack]

Who says the Code is supposed to make sense?

The CMP,s.:roll:

 

[480sparky]

The CMP,s.:roll:

They're the reason it doesn't make sense.

 

[One-eyed Jack]

They're the reason it doesn't make sense.

I can't argue with your guy laughing up there!!!!