Problems with local inspector

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walkerj

walkerj

Senior Member
Location
Baton Rouge
Thanks for all the replies:)

I just feel like I am stuck between a rock and a hard place in that this is not my company but I feel so strongly about the inspectors being held accountable.

It makes me nuts;)
 
S

shepelec

Senior Member
Location
Palmer, MA
I ask for it because some cable manufactures recommend it and it is good practice. Since nobody seems to "require it" I can not either, I have never flagged anybody because of this. Take a look at AC/MC terminations.

http://www.afcweb.com/pdfs/afc_cable_catalog/afc_install_guide_0704.pdf

For some reason the NEC is behind the ball on this one, since AC and MC are almost identicle in construction. My point is, even though it is not required it is a good practice.
 
kbsparky

kbsparky

Senior Member
Location
Delmarva, USA
ty said:
If you really want to fight this battle, have your lawyer send them a letter. And that means the Electrical Inspector, and the Buildin'g Inspector.

But, before you do, I would suggest getting a letter in writing from the inspector's office explaining what CODE you are in violation of.

Now, if you go this route, be prepared. DOCUMENT everything.
If you feel there is reprocusions towards you, give the documentation to your lawyer, and have him take care of it.
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Good thing we don't have this problem in Delaware. We have 6 different inspection agencies to pick from, and if one gets anal about something like this, we are free to use a different firm on the next job ;)
 
mivey

mivey

Senior Member
Well Bob, I see you have just obtained a permit for the Johnson place. Before you get started, let's sit down and go over a few things I like to see from the contractors working in my area. You did not submit a firm bid, did you?
 
C

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
shepelec said:
My point is, even though it is not required it is a good practice.
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I don't see the issue. Our entire shop runs MC without installing anti-shorts, we also use the the insulated Arlington pop-in MC connectors too. I haven't seen a shorted wire yet.
 
roger

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
shepelec said:
For some reason the NEC is behind the ball on this one, since AC and MC are almost identicle in construction.
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The NEC is not behind anything in this case, MC and AC are similar in appearance only, not in construction. See 250.118 for an example, the little aluminum runner makes a world of difference.

Schedule 40 and schedule 80 PVC looks the same until you get up close

Roger
 
T

ty

Senior Member
Location
3rd Rock from the Sun
kbsparky said:
Good thing we don't have this problem in Delaware. We have 6 different inspection agencies to pick from, and if one gets anal about something like this, we are free to use a different firm on the next job ;)
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I really only use 1 Inspection agency in the 1st State.
I have no problem getting a violation report on a legitimate violation.


Most of the others do not like me.
I call them out on inspections they pass that should never have.
They are basically 'lick em and stick em' for their 'top customers'.
It isn't about safety with alot of them, it's about revenue.

One inspector (from a different agency) has repeatedly on numerous occasions told me that he has one electrician with more violations than all of the others put together (that he inspects).
That's pretty bad. And the sad thing about it, there is nothing stating that he has to send this documentation to the State.
The wire man('cause he isn't any electrician in my book) just keeps PAYING re-inspect fees.
Why would this inspector want to lose that Customer?

I called one out on a temp pole.
It was a fire job. The demo company had their electrician install temp pole, then we wired the new custom home.
No GFCI's, no ground rod. They ran NM accross the ground to feed outlets mounted in plastic boxes.
On our 1st day there, one of the NM's caught on fire.
We hadn't even started working.
There was No sticker on it, but there was a meter and it was powered up. Hmmm.
His biggest problem was how I knew who inspected it when there was no sticker.

This list could go on, and on.
 
J

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
We're pretty fortunate here. Our inspectors can be tough but they are fair. We did have 1 a few years ago that loved to play cat and mouse games. Would ask a million stupid questions, like "How did you know this bonding strap took a 1/4x20 bolt?" Because it looked like a 1/4x20, quacked like a 1/4x20 and walked like a 1/4x20!! He would pick the job over, find a minor hairsplitting issue and act like he was torn apart over calling you on it. "I know you worked hard on this, I hate to make you redo it, just tears me up, etc." He made me pull out 200' of ground wire and replace a 4" pull box with a larger one, using a 1/o ground. I didn't mind redoing the wire and box as much as his crocodile tears. Strangely enough, he's contracting again now and doesn't seem to have that kind of attitude any more. I think authority went to his head as an inspector. I knew lots of guys with the same complaints on him. 1 or 2 were ready to do him harm and were held back by coworkers. Never harass someone who's been working day and night to finish a job!!

We did have an inspector in a nearby community turn down a temp service we put up. Granted, it was weird looking. Conduit up with service head and one down. We had been using it; built it that way when we were told a hookup would be overhead, got there and it was UG. We pulled wire out of top and put an UG conduit. From then on, we took it to jobs and used whichever one needed. No problems. Then this guy turned it down. My boss called his boss, asking for code violations. He hemmed and hawed around, finally said "No violations but we just don't like the way it looks." I begged the boss to go over his head but he wouldn't. He knew we would suffer retaliations forever more.

Mostly, our inspectors try their best to follow code as written and try to be consistent. Chief inspector keeps up with issues and meets regularly with staff to head off problems as much as possible.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
shepelec said:
I ask for it because some cable manufactures recommend it and it is good practice.
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How can you determine it is good practice when the MC manufacturer (Southwire) does not require it. If they thought there was any possibility of a problem they would require them and list it in their instructions.

Here is the PDF for MC and the info is on page 3.
Here is what it says

FEATURES
• Reduces installation costs up to 50% over pipe and wire.
• Lightweight aluminum armor--as much as 45% lighter than steel MC Cable.
• UL Classified 1, 2, and 3 hour Through Penetration Firestop Systems: W-J-3037, W-L-3110, W-L-3113, W-L-3117,
W-L-3120, W-L-3121, W-L-3160, C-AJ-3115, C-AJ-3140, C-AJ-3142, C-AJ-3145, C-AJ-3173, C-AJ-3202, C-AJ-4065,
C-AJ-4066, F-C-3038.
• Cable reverse wound on reel for ease of pulling and installation. When pulling from coils, pull from inside to ensure ease of installation.
• Anti-short bushings are not required for use with MC cable per the NEC and UL
Click to expand...
__________________
 
S

shepelec

Senior Member
Location
Palmer, MA
This is the last I have to say about this. This horse is drawing flys now.

AFC recommends anti-shorts, recommends not requires. I provided the link the their page.

The only physical difference between AC/BX and MC is a bonding strip and a solid ground.

Yes it is not required by code to use anti shorts if you are using connectors listed for MC cable.

So what is so different between MC and AC that there could not be a chance to the armour shorting out the circuit? :roll:
 
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