Problems with local inspector

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augie47

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
The old adage about arguing with an inspector is like wrestling a pig, as you both get dirty but the pig likes, it is unfortunately true.
Obviously getting a lawyer involved might help, but the you would probably need to do so more than once and that is expensive. The best solution I have seen, if the guy is really that far off, is for a group of contractors to meet with the local Building Official or Councilperson and express your complaints with details available if desired. In these situations, a group does far more than an individual.
 
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CopperTone

Senior Member
Location
MetroWest, MA
Sometimes inspectors use the term " we we like to see it done this way" or "I do it this way"

The reality is inspectors are not always right. Almost all inspectors I deal with are smart, respectful, and cooperative. You do run into the occasional stubborn guy as I'm sure inspectors run into subborn EC's.

All you can do is be respectful and ask for a written code violation. Ask them to document the code violation and send it to your office for review. If the inspector won't pass your job then he certainly has to document his findings. If they can't do that then I believe they have to pass your job.

Anytime an inspector has an issue I use it as an opportunity to possibly learn something that I didn't know - unless it is cock and bull.

I once had an inspector yell at me "if you want to work in my town you will do as I say" not so fast sir. He wanted me to alternate kitchen counter receptacles so no two receptacles right beside each other were the same circuit. Insaneness I though. I asked for a code reference or local ammendment - he said "it isn't there but that is what I want". He ran off screaming not signing the card.
I called the building inspector and proceeded to unleash a world of anger towards his electrical inspector. got an apology the next day and he signed the card.
 
readydave8

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
If its something small I usually change it, and then show the inspector my documentation of why I didn't have to, and say words like "but I'll let it go this time if you'll pass it next time." Gotta show them who's in charge.

I've been lucky if its something big, more than once got it passed and promised not to do it again in his jurisdiction (one guy wanted an outside disconnect although the panel was back-to-back; I told him I would from now on if he passed that one. I never happened to see him again, and haven't put any outside disconncets in that situation).
 
Cavie

Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
kwired said:
for the people who think just use the bushings to make the inspector happy, it is not worth the fight you are wrong.

If the inspector is wrong he needs to know he is wrong, you need to settle the problem in a civilized matter or he will always be looking to get you on anything he can.

do you fight a traffic citation when you feel like you did nothing wrong?

people make mistakes or are misinformed including inspectors.

If an inspector is totally incompetent and tries to enforce a lot of things he can not back up with a code then the contractors he inspects for have a responsibility to report his activity to the proper authority. If there are enough complaints the problems will eventually be resolved.


some will just say I need to get this job done on time just do what he wants.
It will not hurt to put the bushings on for the sake of the project and time, but you still should do what you can to educate the inspector
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I am an inspector and agree with this 100%. I an not a god. I am an electrican. I am no different than most are and dumber than some. IF I am calling something wrong I would exspect someone to tell me about it. Don't call his boss (they all have one.) Go see him in person. I have never met a Building Offical not willing to talk code. If you are in a podunk town with only one man as top cop, I guess you are on your own.
 
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shepelec

Senior Member
Location
Palmer, MA
The first thing I learned when I started inspecting was, Just because it is not the way I would do it, does not mean it is wrong. The second thing was, some times you need to admit your not sure and will have to look it up.

When I am asked, how do you want this or that done? I'll reply "what ever the code book says." I still can not find "My Town" on any map.

On the other side of the coin I have also beeen told, "I've done it this way for years and nobody else has had a problem with it." To this I will respond, "Well you have been doing it wrong for years and here is why."

Inspecting is not as easy as most think. You need to deal with different personalities and attitudes. We all know about the "electricians attitude" as we all have beeen there at one point in time. It seems as most people think it is an us against them, type of game.
 
jwjrw

jwjrw

Senior Member
George Stolz said:
I would not fight this battle. Might be a difference in localities, but taking a hard line against this inspector may well have dramatic, horrific repercussions to your business in the long run. I'm wearing the t-shirt.

Being right does not always entail victory. Sometimes, we must sacrifice being right for being fed. But my finger is not on the pulse of this situation, just the OP's is.
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I use the "Id rather be happy than right" with my girlfriend and on small issues with inspectors like adding a recep in a hallway 9ft long when its not required unless its 10 feet.But if it is going to cost me money to change it then Im on the phone in front of the inspector calling the cheif inspector if he/she dosent show me why i am wrong.
 
jwjrw

jwjrw

Senior Member
shepelec said:
The first thing I learned when I started inspecting was, Just because it is not the way I would do it, does not mean it is wrong. The second thing was, some times you need to admit your not sure and will have to look it up.

When I am asked, how do you want this or that done? I'll reply "what ever the code book says." I still can not find "My Town" on any map.

On the other side of the coin I have also beeen told, "I've done it this way for years and nobody else has had a problem with it." To this I will respond, "Well you have been doing it wrong for years and here is why."

Inspecting is not as easy as most think. You need to deal with different personalities and attitudes. We all know about the "electricians attitude" as we all have beeen there at one point in time. It seems as most people think it is an us against them, type of game.
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I cant ever remember meeting an electrician with an attitude!:cool:
No wait I did see one in the mirror this morning!!!!!:D
About 95% on inspectors here are knowledgeable and willing to answer questions and are very plesant to deal with. The other 5% I try not to do work in their "area" so they dont see an electrician with an "attitude"
 
V

Volta

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Guess I'm lucky in this area, but the inspectors I've dealt with in central Ohio haven't played it that way. Different interpretations sometimes, but always pretty reasonable. Not just this large city, but in the surrounding towns too. I've learned from some, pointed out things to some, had some do research and tell me my interpretation was ok after all, or that it differed, but never felt that there was any 'power-trip'.

And I've always felt and stated that we (ECs and ESIs) are both on the same team, and we both have the same goal: Safegaurding from the hazards arising from the use of electricity.
 
Z

zbang

Senior Member
Location
Roughly 5346 miles from Earls Court
shepelec said:
On the other side of the coin I have also beeen told, "I've done it this way for years and nobody else has had a problem with it." To this I will respond, "Well you have been doing it wrong for years and here is why.".
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I get that a lot from mobile vendors- "we do this everywhere else", and have to say "I'm sorry, it's not legal anywhere that I know of, so you can't do it here." then often help them deal with whatever it is. (Things like running a large coffee urn on a zip-cord extension- "oh, it gets a little hot but it's never melted." Um, ya.)

As a slight digression, the software industry there are names for some kinds of bugs/errors, one is the schroedinbug (from the Schr?dinger's cat experiment):
A schroedinbug is a bug that manifests only after someone reading source code or using the program in an unusual way notices that it never should have worked in the first place, at which point the program promptly stops working for everybody until fixed.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unusual_software_bug
 
zappy

zappy

Senior Member
Location
CA.
They come with the roll for a reason? They only take a second to put on. So why not use them? I feel I'm taking a chance by not using them. That sharp edge, and plus tightening down the clamp could cause problems. JMO.
 
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SEO

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
zappy said:
They come with the roll for a reason? They only take a second to put on. So why not use them? I feel I'm taking a chance by not using them. That sharp edge, and plus tightening down the clamp could cause problems. JMO.
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I ageee with you.
 
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roger

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
zappy said:
They come with the roll for a reason? They only take a second to put on. So why not use them? I feel I'm taking a chance by not using them. That sharp edge, and plus tightening down the clamp could cause problems. JMO.
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Whether they come with the roll and only take a second to install is not the issue, the issue is, if you happen to run short and finish the job without them an inspector is wrong to red tag you for not using them, they are simply not required for MC.

Roger
 
F

fireryan

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
I agree with Augie. We had a similiar problem here a few years ago. A bunch of the contractors got together and went to the city council. It basically took care of the problem to some extent. I dont think any lawyers were involved though
 
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stars13bars2

Senior Member
I'm with Roger on this, and it has come up in my area where they tried to enforce the use of them. I believe the authorities finally caved on their enforcement on one job, as I had no direct association with the job. I was subsequently asked by a good inspector whether I used them or not, to which I answered yes but that I didn't have to. He then told me that I did have to use them because they had a letter from a manufacturer that recomended their use. I contacted the mfg. which was Southwire and asked them directly if they required them in the installation instructions, or if they were required to obtain the ul listing. They did not answer yes to either of my questions but did tell me that enforcement of their use was up to the AHJ. This Southwire representative obviously thinks that code can be made up at the whim of the inspector. With no code citation to the contrary, or a 110.3 violation, I do not believe the use can be enforced. I also told the inspector that he could have a letter from Southwire that said they recomended only their product be used, but that would not carry any more enforceability than the letter he has. He did not like that very much.
 
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shepelec

Senior Member
Location
Palmer, MA
I personaly will always use reds. I won't/ can't enforce it but I will ask for it and I explain why. Beyond the bonding strip and the full size ground, what is the difference between AC/BX and MC cable?
and
What is the purpose of using an anti short?
 
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