Removing Panel Cover

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davelectric

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I am a licensed journeyman and in the electrical industry for 37 years. I was recently on a job and received a citation for removing the panel cover (but not the dead front cover) on a 480v 3 phase panel. We were in a trouble shooting mode tracing some conductors that we believed were no longer in use. The panel was the MDP and did not have a main breaker (six breakers max). The inspector said somebody could reach their fingers around the dead front and come in contact with the breakers or bus. I had to have the power company pull the fuses at the pole on primary and shut down the whole plant in order to reinstall the cover. The inspector also had a problem with the adjacent trough cover I had removed. There were no exposed terminals just insulated conductors passing thru. How is this any different than removing an LB cover or open conductors on a cable tray? The way I see it we put a linesman's safety in jeopardy pulling the fuses and plant employees in the dark, during the outage. Don't you think we have gone a little to far when we have to shutdown a plant and call the power company in order to remove a panel cover? I am very safety consciences, but after 37 years I should be qualified to remove and reinstall a panel cover. Just wanted some thoughts.
 
davelectric said:
I am a licensed journeyman and in the electrical industry for 37 years. I was recently on a job and received a citation for removing the panel cover (but not the dead front cover) on a 480v 3 phase panel. We were in a trouble shooting mode tracing some conductors that we believed were no longer in use. The panel was the MDP and did not have a main breaker (six breakers max). The inspector said somebody could reach their fingers around the dead front and come in contact with the breakers or bus. I had to have the power company pull the fuses at the pole on primary and shut down the whole plant in order to reinstall the cover. The inspector also had a problem with the adjacent trough cover I had removed. There were no exposed terminals just insulated conductors passing thru. How is this any different than removing an LB cover or open conductors on a cable tray? The way I see it we put a linesman's safety in jeopardy pulling the fuses and plant employees in the dark, during the outage. Don't you think we have gone a little to far when we have to shutdown a plant and call the power company in order to remove a panel cover? I am very safety consciences, but after 37 years I should be qualified to remove and reinstall a panel cover. Just wanted some thoughts.
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I'm with you,,,,,but OSHA's not:D
 
has this inspector ever heard of protective clothing and insulated gloves?

maybe he could have the generation plant shut down so the utility can disconnect the primary deenergized.
 
davelectric said:
I am a licensed journeyman and in the electrical industry for 37 years. I was recently on a job and received a citation for removing the panel cover (but not the dead front cover) on a 480v 3 phase panel. We were in a trouble shooting mode tracing some conductors that we believed were no longer in use. The panel was the MDP and did not have a main breaker (six breakers max). The inspector said somebody could reach their fingers around the dead front and come in contact with the breakers or bus. I had to have the power company pull the fuses at the pole on primary and shut down the whole plant in order to reinstall the cover. The inspector also had a problem with the adjacent trough cover I had removed. There were no exposed terminals just insulated conductors passing thru. How is this any different than removing an LB cover or open conductors on a cable tray? The way I see it we put a linesman's safety in jeopardy pulling the fuses and plant employees in the dark, during the outage. Don't you think we have gone a little to far when we have to shutdown a plant and call the power company in order to remove a panel cover? I am very safety consciences, but after 37 years I should be qualified to remove and reinstall a panel cover. Just wanted some thoughts.
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I believe (and Zog would be a better source of information for this) that based on the information that you provided, that the inspector was correct, to an extent. First off, the power does not need to be turned off IF all that you are doing is troubleshooting AND you follow the correct procedures (wearing the appropriate level of PPE and also having warning signs and barriers in place to warn the "uninformed" that live electrical testing is taking place.

Once you cross the line from simple testing and troubleshooting to actual "live work" then specific procedures must be followed. As iwire has pointed out many times in the past, there are very FEW cases in which the power cannot be turned off. In this case, could power be turned off, or could the work have been re-scheduled to take place on a weekend or during a time when the plant was not in operation? Most certainly yes.

hardworkingstiff said:
What's 70E say about this? (I really need to read that document).

And, oh yea, I too think some of this is getting excessive.
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Yes, you do need to read the 70E. Do you really think that this is excessive?? Tell that to the family of someone that was electrocuted because the proper procedures regarding electrical safey were not being followed.

hardworkingstiff said:
Was this a plant inspector or a local electrical inspector? I thought PA mostly used inspection services.
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I am really interested in hearing what kind of "inspector" this was.
 
A citation for opening a cover with no live exposed parts? That's pretty ridiculous. Better not handle a plugged in extension cord without all of your PPE on. :roll:
 
infinity said:
A citation for opening a cover with no live exposed parts? That's pretty ridiculous. Better not handle a plugged in extension cord without all of your PPE on. :roll:
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When you take the outer cover off, you have removed the arc flash protection that the cover had provided. You will need PPE suitable for the arc flash hazard to remove that panel cover. Many of the arc flash incidents have been from something as simple as removing the panel cover. Something was loose in the panel or a previous worker had left a tool in there and the act of removing the cover caused that object to fall across the bus.
 
After 33 years I am still as respectful for electricity as ever and with all due respect to those that choose to see where the inspector is coming from, that is utterly ridiculous.
 
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don_resqcapt19 said:
When you take the outer cover off, you have removed the arc flash protection that the cover had provided. You will need PPE suitable for the arc flash hazard to remove that panel cover. Many of the arc flash incidents have been from something as simple as removing the panel cover. Something was loose in the panel or a previous worker had left a tool in there and the act of removing the cover caused that object to fall across the bus.
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I was speaking about the cover that contained no live parts, the trough cover.
 
davelectric said:
... We were in a trouble shooting mode ...
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Lockout not required. Hard to detect power when it's turned off.
PPE required. As inspector observed there was a small chance of contact.

The inspector over-reacted by not being familiar with electrical work and protocols. The citation should be reversed to mandate extra training for the inspector.
 
davelectric said:
, but after 37 years I should be qualified to remove and reinstall a panel cover. Just wanted some thoughts.
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Time does not make you qualified, you say you have not even read the 70E, let alone have the necessary training to meet the qualified persons requirements. The 70E adresses removing covers in the tables, I suggest you get the proper training and PPE. You do not need to de-energize the panel for T/S, but you do need the proper PPE.
 
yucan2 said:
After 33 years I am still as respectful for electricity as ever and with all due respect to those that choose to see where the inspector is coming from, that is utterly ridiculous.
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I'll bet someone said that very same thing eighty years ago when they were suddenly required to get a drivers' license.

Now that we're into state-wide electrical licensing here, there's people saying the same thing.... "I've been doing electrical since you were in diapers!............."
 
ItsHot said:
OSHA wants us to de-energze equipment before working on it. This sitiuation discribed in the op seems strange coming from a state that doesn't require their EC's to have a licencse?
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We'll that explans it than. Since they don't know what they are doing, they can't get hurt?S
 
This seems excessive the dead front is there for protection from exposed and energized equipment. Yes you could fish something behind the dead front cover but ime sure you could do that with the panel cover on. Now why take the panel cover off if your not removing the dead front to possibly trace the wires ? As far as the trough removing the cover to check things out is fine but pulling the energized wires out could be a problem . You never know if there's a nick in the wire . This sounds like a plant inspector they probably have there own procedures and this may be one of them.
 
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