Removing Panel Cover

[billsnuff]

You can take this any way you wish, but you removed the cover...

Was there a warning label on the cover ?

If so, what did it say ?

If the cover had no warning information, then there is no indication of the level of hazard you are dealing with, so how do you know what level of PPE to use or if it even exists?

restricted and prohibited approach for cantact is 'avoid contact' table 130.2(C) 2009 and from 130.7(C)(9) voltage testing live parts is HRC 2* with volt rated glove and insulated tools and the proper CAT rated meter.

So without the warning label information and without a copy of 70E you basically had no clue of the type or level of hazard you were dealing with.

I with the inspector........

 

[cowboyjwc]

While I will be the first one to admit that the highest level of PPE I have ever used is a pair of gloves, I will also say that from what I have read and learned on this forum, the inspector was correct.

What I would question though is his authourity to cite you for that violation. And when I think cite, I think fine.

 

[billsnuff]

While I will be the first one to admit that the highest level of PPE I have ever used is a pair of gloves, I will also say that from what I have read and learned on this forum, the inspector was correct

But I'll bet my klien's that you knew it was the right level of PPE for the job.

 

[ItsHot]

[/COLOR]

We'll that explans it than. Since they don't know what they are doing, they can't get hurt?S

Yep! Pretty much!!!:grin::grin::grin:

 

[cowboyjwc]

But I'll bet my klien's that you knew it was the right level of PPE for the job.

The actual quote is, "Your honor, to the best of my knowledge....":grin:

 

[jmellc]

Further evidence that the world is being run by flakes and sissies.

 

[jxofaltrds]

The actual quote is, "Your honor, to the best of my knowledge....":grin:

Never say "to the 'best' of my knowledge".
This means that you know ALL the facts.

Always say "to my knowledge".
This means that you have limited knowledge.

 

[hillbilly1]

The fault current may have exceeded the protection that a 40 cal suit would provide, hence the only "safe" way to remove the cover was to de-energize it. Here is a link that will give you a guesstimate of the protection required. I think it is a little biased, since it is a fuse manufacture providing the info, but should be pretty close. http://www.cooperbussmann.com/arcflash/index.aspx

 

[jim dungar]

The fault current may have exceeded the protection that a 40 cal suit would provide, hence the only "safe" way to remove the cover was to de-energize it. Here is a link that will give you a guesstimate of the protection required. I think it is a little biased, since it is a fuse manufacture providing the info, but should be pretty close. http://www.cooperbussmann.com/arcflash/index.aspx

One thing to remember when using this type of calculator, is to not over estimate the bolted fault current at the point of the arcing fault.

 

[hillbilly1]

One thing to remember when using this type of calculator, is to not over estimate the bolted fault current at the point of the arcing fault.

Yes, there are a lot of factors that can change the actual fault current greatly, distance to transformer, wire size, available fault current from the utility and much more. I think this site just promotes using high AIC fuses to lower available fault current versus breakers. I took a good continuing education class about available fault current about 12-15 years ago, I wish I had kept the info.

 

[davelectric]

Time does not make you qualified, .

Neither does taking all the classes that the NFPA offers. I beleive its a combination of good work habits and experience along with continueing education that will make us all safer. My daughter took drivers education classes and professional driver instruction and had three accidents. Does this make her more qualified and a safer driver than my son who had no classes or professional instruction with no accidents. I think 37 years of field experience does carry some weight.

 

[zog]

Neither does taking all the classes that the NFPA offers. I beleive its a combination of good work habits and experience along with continueing education that will make us all safer. My daughter took drivers education classes and professional driver instruction and had three accidents. Does this make her more qualified and a safer driver than my son who had no classes or professional instruction with no accidents. I think 37 years of field experience does carry some weight.

Sorry you are wrong, I don't care how much experience you have, if you have nevere learned the proper skills and methods to evaluate and protect yourself from the hazards you not qualified, you have never even read the standard!!

And your driving analogy sucks, I am visiting FL right now and these drivers are the worst in the country and they all have 50+ years experience driving, was cutoff 2 times by 2 different caddys last night and saw one blow through a red light.

 

[Cavie]

And your driving analogy sucks, I am visiting FL right now and these drivers are the worst in the country and they all have 50+ years experience driving, was cutoff 2 times by 2 different caddys last night and saw one blow through a red light.

65% of the Florida drivers this time of year come (like you) from someplace else!!!!:roll:

 

[billsnuff]

on a positive note

on a positive note

the link is to a breif power point on 2004 70E...........

http://www.lanl.gov/safety/electrical/docs/subcontractor_elec.ppt

 

[bob cape may]

How come so many haven't read or taking classes on 70E, we do class room every year on it.

 

[Dave58er]

....I will be the first one to admit that the highest level of PPE I have ever used is a pair of gloves.....

Really? :-?

Can I suggest you make a small investment in some safety glasses and a long sleeve FR shirt for starters. No it won't save you from hiroshima but it could mean the difference between "wow what was that, there's a problem here" and "wow I've got 2nd degree burns on my arms and I can't see anything".

 

[Dave58er]

As to the OP, I could see myself reacting in several different ways if I were in that inspectors shoes but I need more info.

First thing to keep in mind is that this is SERVICE EQUIPMENT. It demands respect.

If you guys appeared to be well trained professionals I would grant a certain leeway.

However if I walked up on some clowns with no clue of what they were getting into I would come down hard!

Could you give some more info? Were you wearing any PPE? Were you reaching into the panel? Were you sticking your head right into the panel for a better look? Is there an established safety protocol that you were in violation of?

As far as experience goes the way I here it is;
There are old electricians. There are dumb electricians. There are no old dumb electricians.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

As far as experience goes the way I here it is;
There are old electricians. There are dumb electricians. There are no old dumb electricians.

I like that.

How old do you have to be before you are an old electrician (which by this definition would make you not dumb)?

 

[davelectric]

Sorry you are wrong, I don't care how much experience you have, if you have nevere learned the proper skills and methods to evaluate and protect yourself from the hazards you not qualified, you have never even read the standard!!

And your driving analogy sucks, I am visiting FL right now and these drivers are the worst in the country and they all have 50+ years experience driving, was cutoff 2 times by 2 different caddys last night and saw one blow through a red light.

You don't have to be sorry, but I'm not wrong, you just don't agree with me. What I said is, it's a combination of experience and training. Did you consider the reason you didn't have an accident being cut off 2 times is because of all your years of good driving habits and experience? Or according to your theory, you should take some defensive driving classes. No where did I mention that I have not read NFPA 70E, so why do you keep saying that, its not true. If you were to read NEC 110.6 (b) type of training: it shall be a classroom or on the job type, or a combination of the two. It does not say if you take specific classes or read NFPA 70E you are qualified.
Who do you want me to send to your house for electrical repair a crew of all 5-year apprentices or crew of a journeyman and an apprentice? They both have had the same training and education but the journeyman has experience. Isn't that why we pay him more? Experience!!

 

[Cavie]

The inspector is a nut case.