Solid equipment grounding conductor (egc)

[d2568maaee]

SITUATION: 2-#2 Phase Conductors, 1 #2 Bare Solid EGC in 2" Underground Sch. 40 PVC.


I was told that installation of the above size EGC (#2 Bare Solid) violates NEC.

Article 250.118 permits bare solid EGC's. Article 250.122 permits EGC's to be sized up the the size of the size of the phase conductors. I sized the EGC for fault carrying on the circuit.

Does Article 310.3 apply to EGC's? Can someone provide me with clarification and direction?

Sincerely,

Michael A. Armentor, P.E.
Illumination and Electrical Facilities Engineer
LaDOTD Bridge Design
1201 Capitol Access Road Rm 609G
Baton Rouge, LA 70802

"Life is a gift to you. The way you live your life is your gift to those who come after. Live it well, enjoy today, and do something fun. Be happy, thankful, and seek God!?[/COLOR][/I]

 

[infinity]

Conductors in raceways are required to be stranded when larger than #10 AWG. Look again at 310.3 as you've noted.

 

[Volta]

Conductors in raceways are required to be stranded when larger than #10 AWG. Look again at 310.3 as you've noted.

Agreed, the #2 wires in a raceway need to be stranded.

 

[d2568maaee]

So, from the previous responses, I see one stating a "requirement" and the other stating a "need".

My real question is "Do Equipment Grounding Conductors (EGC's) fall under the jurisdiction of Art. 310.3 and since Art. 250 makes no reference to Art. 310, do I make the assumption that 310 applies also for EGC's?

I have only been designing electrical systems for 10yrs and learning everyday. I have had varying opinions from many engineers regarding EGC's being solid bare vs stranded.

Your responses are very appreciated.


Sincerely,

Michael A. Armentor, P.E.
Illumination and Electrical Facilities Engineer
LaDOTD Bridge Design
1201 Capitol Access Road Rm 609G
Baton Rouge, LA 70802

"Life is a gift to you. The way you live your life is your gift to those who come after. Live it well, enjoy today, and do something fun. Be happy, thankful, and seek God!?[/COLOR][/I][/QUOTE]

 

[david luchini]

Michael, I would disagree that the equipment grounding conductor needs to be stranded. 310.3 says that conductors of size 8 AWG or larger shall be stranded EXCEPT as permitted elsewhere in the Code.

Section 250.118 says that an equipment grounding conductor is permitted to be a copper, aluminum or copper clad aluminum conductor which shall be insulated, covered or bare, and shall be SOLID OR STRANDED.

The bare solid egc should be OK under the exception of 310.3.

 

[Volta]

So, from the previous responses, I see one stating a "requirement" and the other stating a "need".

'Required' and 'need' mean the same thing in that context- 'shall' -though neither of used that word, but it is what was meant.

My real question is "Do Equipment Grounding Conductors (EGC's) fall under the jurisdiction of Art. 310.3 and since Art. 250 makes no reference to Art. 310, do I make the assumption that 310 applies also for EGC's? ...

EGCs do fall under the jurisdiction of Article 310 and Section 310.3, as they are conductors. No external reference is needed, Chapters 1, 2, 3, an 4 apply generally 90.3.

Whether or not 250.118 is a permitted exception to the rule given in 310.3 is the question then, as David showed. I personally do not see the list of materials and shapes that are accepted as Grounding Conductors in 250.118 as permission for their use in otherwise disallowed situations.

But it could be seen as reasonable to interpret it as permission too. Hmmm . . .

 

[tom baker]

The practicle answer is solid is very tough to pull in a conduit, esp in 2 AWG, stranded is much easier.

 

[pete m.]

EGCs do fall under the jurisdiction of Article 310 and Section 310.3, as they are conductors. No external reference is needed, Chapters 1, 2, 3, an 4 apply generally 90.3.

I agree with this statement. 310.3 deals with "conductors" if an equipment grounding conductor is a conductor (as opposed to EMT, IMC, RMC, etc..) to be installed in a raceway then it has to comply with 310.3.

Theres my 2 cents (although its only actually worth a penny)

Pete

 

[eprice]

EGCs do fall under the jurisdiction of Article 310 and Section 310.3, as they are conductors. No external reference is needed, Chapters 1, 2, 3, an 4 apply generally 90.3.

Whether or not 250.118 is a permitted exception to the rule given in 310.3 is the question then, as David showed. I personally do not see the list of materials and shapes that are accepted as Grounding Conductors in 250.118 as permission for their use in otherwise disallowed situations.

I am in agreement with all of this.

 

[david luchini]

Let's look at this another way. Section 250.118 requires that the EGC run with or enclosing the circuit conductors be one or more or a combination of several types of conductors, including:

RMC, IMC, EMT, Armor of AC cable, cable try, et. al, or a copper, aluminum, or copper-clad aluminum conductor. The conductor shall be SOLID or stranded; insulated, covered, or BARE; and in the form of a WIRE or a busbar of any shape.

We then get to section 310.3 which says: Where installed in raceways, conductors of size 8 AWG and larger shall be stranded, EXCEPT as PERMITTED or required ELSEWHERE in this Code.

Section 250.118 PERMITS the EGC run with the circuit conductors to be a BARE SOLID WIRE.

Under the exception in 310.3, and per section 250.118, the solid wire is acceptable.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Where in the NEC is there an article that allows solid wire larger than #10 to be pulled in a raceway. I think this is the exception we need to find.

 

[infinity]

Let's look at this another way. Section 250.118 requires that the EGC run with or enclosing the circuit conductors be one or more or a combination of several types of conductors, including:

RMC, IMC, EMT, Armor of AC cable, cable try, et. al, or a copper, aluminum, or copper-clad aluminum conductor. The conductor shall be SOLID or stranded; insulated, covered, or BARE; and in the form of a WIRE or a busbar of any shape.

We then get to section 310.3 which says: Where installed in raceways, conductors of size 8 AWG and larger shall be stranded, EXCEPT as PERMITTED or required ELSEWHERE in this Code.

Section 250.118 PERMITS the EGC run with the circuit conductors to be a BARE SOLID WIRE.

Under the exception in 310.3, and per section 250.118, the solid wire is acceptable.

Although I like your argument I disagree that just because an EGC is permitted to be solid that it overrides 310.3. For pool lighting a #8 conductor is permitted to be solid or stranded in a raceway:

680.23(B)(2)(b) Nonmetallic Conduit. Where a nonmetallic conduit is used, an 8 AWG insulated solid or stranded copper bonding jumper shall be installed in this conduit unless a listed low-voltage lighting system not requiring grounding is used. The bonding jumper shall be terminated in the forming shell, junction box or transformer enclosure, or ground-fault circuit-interrupter enclosure. The termination of the 8 AWG bonding jumper in the forming shell shall be covered with, or encapsulated in, a listed potting compound to protect the connection from the possible deteriorating effect of pool water.

 

[shepelec]

310.1 and 310.2 read like the egc could fit in one of the exceptions to this rule. :-?

 

[david luchini]

Although I like your argument I disagree that just because an EGC is permitted to be solid that it overrides 310.3. For pool lighting a #8 conductor is permitted to be solid or stranded in a raceway:

Rob, I'm not saying that JUST because an EGC is permitted to be solid that it OVERRIDES 310.3.

I'm saying that the Exception in 310.3 ("As permitted or required elsewhere in this Code) ALLOWS for the EGC to be solid, because in section 250.118, the EGC is PERMITTED to be a bare, solid conductor run with the circuit conductors.

This is not "overriding" 310.3, it is following 310.3 to the letter.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Rob, I'm not saying that JUST because an EGC is permitted to be solid that it OVERRIDES 310.3.

I'm saying that the Exception in 310.3 ("As permitted or required elsewhere in this Code) ALLOWS for the EGC to be solid, because in section 250.118, the EGC is PERMITTED to be a bare, solid conductor run with the circuit conductors.

This is not "overriding" 310.3, it is following 310.3 to the letter.

I have to agree with rob on this one. I believe one of the places it is allow is for swimming pool lights- where a #8 solid is allowed from the shell to the deck box. This would meet the exception, IMO. The fact that a wire is allowed to be solid does not mean it can be installed in a raceway as a solid conductor. There are instances where an egc is allowed to be run separate from the conductors. In these circumstances you may use a solid EGC. I don't believe the intent of this section, in general, was to allow EGC's to be solid over #10 in a raceway.

 

[elohr46]

Rob, I'm not saying that JUST because an EGC is permitted to be solid that it OVERRIDES 310.3.

I'm saying that the Exception in 310.3 ("As permitted or required elsewhere in this Code) ALLOWS for the EGC to be solid, because in section 250.118, the EGC is PERMITTED to be a bare, solid conductor run with the circuit conductors.

This is not "overriding" 310.3, it is following 310.3 to the letter.

The way I see this is 250.118 is for 'Types of EGCs' and 310.3 gives you the stranded/solid sizes allowed in conduit.

 

[david luchini]

I have to agree with rob on this one. I believe one of the places it is allow is for swimming pool lights- where a #8 solid is allowed from the shell to the deck box. This would meet the exception, IMO. The fact that a wire is allowed to be solid does not mean it can be installed in a raceway as a solid conductor. There are instances where an egc is allowed to be run separate from the conductors. In these circumstances you may use a solid EGC. I don't believe the intent of this section, in general, was to allow EGC's to be solid over #10 in a raceway.

Dennis, a #8 solid "equipment ground conductor" is not "allowed" for swimming pool lights. A #8 insulated solid (or stranded) copper "bonding jumper" is REQUIRED for pool lights when nonmetallic conduit is used.

Section 310.3 has two phrases, both of which must be considered. The first says conductors in raceways of size #8 and larger must be stranded, the second says except as permitted or required elsewhere in this Code.

Section 250.118 permits an Equipment Grounding Conductor to be Rigid Metal Conduit, or IMC or EMT, or the Armor of AC cable or the copper sheath of MI cable, etc. It also permits the EGC to be a copper, aluminum, or copper-clad aluminum conductor, which shall be SOLID or stranded; insulated, covered or BARE; and in the form of a WIRE or a busbar of any shape. 250.118 says the EGC can be RUN WITH or enclosing the circuit conductors.

Nowhere does 250.118 say that the EGC can only be a solid bare wire run with the circuits conductors, if those conductors are not run in conduit. The EGC is permitted, by 250.118 to be a solid bare copper conductor run with the circuit conductors for all situations. It could be run in conduit, it could be run in cable tray, it could be run in free air supported by a messenger wire.

Since 250.118 PERMITS the EGC to be a solid bare copper conductor WITHOUT restriction, the exception to 310.3 applies, and the installation as described is code compliant.

 

[infinity]

Since 250.118 PERMITS the EGC to be a solid bare copper conductor WITHOUT restriction, the exception to 310.3 applies, and the installation as described is code compliant.

Judging from the other responses you're alone on an island on this one.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Dennis, a #8 solid "equipment ground conductor" is not "allowed" for swimming pool lights. A #8 insulated solid (or stranded) copper "bonding jumper" is REQUIRED for pool lights when nonmetallic conduit is used.

You are correct. I used the wrong terminology but the idea is the same-- no solid wire in conduits except for..... pool bonding for the light is one of those except.

Sorry I do not see the rest of your argument. It won't work around here, I can tell you that and I would have to agree.

 

[david luchini]

You are correct. I used the wrong terminology but the idea is the same-- no solid wire in conduits except for..... pool bonding for the light is one of those except.

Sorry I do not see the rest of your argument. It won't work around here, I can tell you that and I would have to agree.

The idea of using 680.23(B)(2) for installing a solid conductor in a conduit is the SAME as using 250.118. Section 680.23(B)(2) REQUIRES a #8 bonding jumper to be installed to a wet niche fixture when the conductors are run in non-metallic conduit. It PERMITS it to be either solid or stranded. Section 250.118 REQUIRES that the EGC be run with or be enclosing the circuit conductors. It PERMITS it to be one or more of several different types of conductors, including permitting it to be a bare solid wire run with the circuit conductors. If the exception of 310.3 applies to 680.23 where a solid wire is permitted to a bonding jumper, then it must also apply to 250.118 where a solid wire is permitted to be an EGC. I do not see how you could read the plain language of the code otherwise.

Do you not agree that 250.118 PERMITS and EGC to be a solid bare wire run WITH the circuit conductors?