using scrap wire

[roger]

Ok, let's look at a hypothetical situation.

I am asked to provide a feeder to a detached shed and I have to cross the house with this feeder to get to the side of the house where the shed is to be built at which point I will have to change wiring methods.

I have scrap NM in the warehouse that will make it from the panel to a location where I will make a splice to UF which is also scrap I have in the warehouse and it is long enough to make it to the shed.

I have no problem using these scrap pieces, but I am led to believe there are some here that would buy new rolls of each type of cable for this project, is that correct? :roll:

Roger

 

[iwire]

I have no problem using these scrap pieces, but I am led to believe there are some here that would buy new rolls of each type of cable for this project, is that correct? :roll:

That seems to be what I am hearing.:roll:

 

[zog]

Ok, let's look at a hypothetical situation.

I am asked to provide a feeder to a detached shed and I have to cross the house with this feeder to get to the side of the house where the shed is to be built at which point I will have to change wiring methods.

I have scrap NM in the warehouse that will make it from the panel to a location where I will make a splice to UF which is also scrap I have in the warehouse and it is long enough to make it to the shed.

I have no problem using these scrap pieces, but I am led to believe there are some here that would buy new rolls of each type of cable for this project, is that correct? :roll:

Roger

You keep trying to change the senario from what the OP was asking. Using multiple splices of scrap for a short run to an oven. Try to stay on track.

 

[roger]

You keep trying to change the senario from what the OP was asking. Using multiple splices of scrap for a short run to an oven. Try to stay on track.

Not at all, you made an assumption and created your own scenario that these were all short pieces of around 20' and your scenario was just that, an assumption.

The OP has since clarified that your assumption of 20' pieces is in fact wrong.

Roger

 

[zog]

Not at all, you made an assumption and created your own scenario that these were all short pieces of around 20' and your scenario was just that, an assumption.

The OP has since clarified that your assumption of 20' pieces is in fact wrong.

Roger

His clarification said

somewhere between 80 to 110 feet

And he was asking about multiple splices, which means more than one. So the longest possible scrap he is talking about would be between 27 and 36 feet, and that is assuming "multiple" means only 2 splices. 3 splices would make it 20 to 28 feet, etc...

So I do not think my assumption is too far off.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Ok well lets try a scenerio a little closer to the op's


Customer has basement he uses to manufacturer something.


Basement is divided into 6 rooms labeled 1-6


Service is in room one

He has a 50 amp machine that he want to wheel from room to room during his process


He informs you the machine will run in room 6 most often, but he needs to be able to wheel it into every room and plug it in.

How in the world can this safely be done?

 

[roger]

And he was asking about multiple splices, which means more than one.

And I agree but still don't see a problem

So the longest possible scrap he is talking about would be between 27 and 36 feet, and that is assuming "multiple" means only 2 splices. 3 splices would make it 20 to 28 feet, etc...

So I do not think my assumption is too far off.

Actually it could be one 80' piece with 15' spliced on each end where they penetrate the floor to the panel and the range receptacle.

In any case, I don't see a problem.

Roger

 

[electricmanscott]

The bottom line is simple. there is no technical reason that a spliced conductor is any better or worse than an unspliced in the situation presented by the OP. That is a fact.

The only thing open to debate is whether or not you think it is a good idea. What ever you think, good idea, bad idea, nonprofessional etc, it is only your opinion and as such it does not make it any better or worse than the opposing view.

 

[mkgrady]

Guess that shows why guys who do residential (And would use spliced scraps) have no place installing power cables.

I have asked this already but everyone ignored me so I will ask again. Would you do an insulation resistance test on this spliced scrap wire? Do you test any wire you install?.

I am experienced in both residential and MV power distribution.

I test MV cable but not residential. An exception would be to insure that neutrals and hots are not shorted to each other or to the grounding conductor before turning them on.

 

[peter d]

Some of you guys crack me up. A simple issue immediately becomes the "sky is falling." I laugh especially hard where I hear "splices are failure points" and the story about the homeowner that got a bill to repair said failed splice. Of course splices are failure points. Also, cows go "moo" and water is wet, in case anyone didn't know. Professional electricians are paid to make spices that don't fail, whether it's #22 burglar alarm cable or 600 kcmil feeders. I think it's reasonable to assume that 2 -#8's can be spliced without the expectation that it will fail. At least that's how I go about things.

 

[stevenje]

It is obvious that splicing the range wire, no matter how many times, will still meet the NEC if installed properly. The real issue of this thread should be workmanship. My take on all of this is keeping up the standards of installation or in other words, workmanship, as high as possible. I came up in this business when the journeyman and masters that I worked under took extreme pride in their workmanship. To see their conduit runs and racks was a thing of beauty. Everything was plumb, true, square and level. This type of workmanship was carried through out every aspect of the job. There was pride in the installation, not the attitude of "it looks good from my house" or "close enough for government work." The more we allow this trade to be "dummied down" or the installations standards to be lowered, through the lack of workmanship and pride, the less we are worth. Remember that the NEC is the minimum installation standard. To spice or not. Which installation shows more workmanship and pride? My money is on not. Thanks for listening.

 

[electricmanscott]

It is obvious that splicing the range wire, no matter how many times, will still meet the NEC if installed properly. The real issue of this thread should be workmanship. My take on all of this is keeping up the standards of installation or in other words, workmanship, as high as possible. I came up in this business when the journeyman and masters that I worked under took extreme pride in their workmanship. To see their conduit runs and racks was a thing of beauty. Everything was plumb, true, square and level. This type of workmanship was carried through out every aspect of the job. There was pride in the installation, not the attitude of "it looks good from my house" or "close enough for government work." The more we allow this trade to be "dummied down" or the installations standards to be lowered, through the lack of workmanship and pride, the less we are worth. Remember that the NEC is the minimum installation standard. To spice or not. Which installation shows more workmanship and pride? My money is on not. Thanks for listening.

I agree with your points BUT it should be pointed out that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. In this case an electrician may find this stuff a thing of beauty but the average joe could not give a hoot.

 

[stevenje]

I agree with your points BUT it should be pointed out that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. In this case an electrician may find this stuff a thing of beauty but the average joe could not give a hoot.

Agreed. For all of you out there that choose to put in a junction box, at least line up all you cover plate screws.

 

[growler]

Really? Using scrap wire you have laying around and splicing it to save a few bucks when I am sure you quoted the job based on using new wire is not unprofessional? Every splice is a potential failure point.

The first thing that would need to be cleared up is the term "scrap wire".

If this wire were laying around on the floor of a job being walked on and othervise abused then picked up and stored in the scrap barrel then it's scrap wire.

If these are just short pieces of cable at the end of a roll that have been talken care of and just not of sufficient length for the homerun then it's still new cable ( it has not been used before ).

On commercial and industrial jobs cable the size of #6 & #8 get spliced all over the place with no problems. Try running some pole lights without splices ( can't be done ).

The real problem with trying to use short pieces of cable in residential is finding an area for a junction box with access that will not ever be finished. Then there is the problem of is it really worth it. after buying the box & cover and the wire nuts and all the labor. How much can you really save?

I don't see splicing as a hazard or that it will cause future problems but it may well be a waste of time trying to save money in this manner.

 

[satcom]

The first thing that would need to be cleared up is the term "scrap wire".

If this wire were laying around on the floor of a job being walked on and othervise abused then picked up and stored in the scrap barrel then it's scrap wire.

If these are just short pieces of cable at the end of a roll that have been talken care of and just not of sufficient length for the homerun then it's still new cable ( it has not been used before ).

On commercial and industrial jobs cable the size of #6 & #8 get spliced all over the place with no problems. Try running some pole lights without splices ( can't be done ).

The real problem with trying to use short pieces of cable in residential is finding an area for a junction box with access that will not ever be finished. Then there is the problem of is it really worth it. after buying the box & cover and the wire nuts and all the labor. How much can you really save?

I don't see splicing as a hazard or that it will cause future problems but it may well be a waste of time trying to save money in this manner.

I can remember years back looking at a job where a commercial customer found the EC installing cables from the demo cable on the floor, they got rid of him and went out to find contractors with a bit more sense.

 

[stevenje]

I can remember years back looking at a job where a commercial customer found the EC installing cables from the demo cable on the floor, they got rid of him and went out to find contractors with a bit more sense.

In the past I worked for a large EC who got caught putting in used equipment on a new job for a large computer company. Needless to say they were taken off the bid list for any future work. It simply amazes me that they would risk the opportunity to make BIG BUCKS with this company for the small amount of money they saved, by not buying the new equipment that was spec'd for the job. "You just can't fix stupid"~ Ron White

 

[SPARKS40]

Okay.....scenario #2.....new homeowner decides to finish basement with drywall ceiling, and said J-boxes are up in the joist space. Do you give a "discount" to come back and do what you should have done in the beginning, and make it a continuous run, or let's say they don't pull a permit, do it themselves, and cover up the boxes and there's an issue with one of the connections. Then what?? Or, let's say the new homeowner gets a home inspector before the sale, and they say it isn't kosher to have the J-boxes there. Then what?

 

[480sparky]

Okay.....scenario #2.....new homeowner decides to finish basement with drywall ceiling, and said J-boxes are up in the joist space. Do you give a "discount" to come back and do what you should have done in the beginning, and make it a continuous run, or let's say they don't pull a permit, do it themselves, and cover up the boxes and there's an issue with one of the connections. Then what?? Or, let's say the new homeowner gets a home inspector before the sale, and they say it isn't kosher to have the J-boxes there. Then what?

My contract specifically addresses changes by others. Covering up my when-installed-they-were-legal-and-passed-inspection boxes is just such a change.

 

[WinZip]

Well OK , if it's ethical to splice left over cable rather than a complete run from the electrical panel to the range/oven then I assume it's also OK to use { in this same house } old breakers just clean them up a little bit first - maybe even old junction boxes - wire nuts - covers etc. and that list can go on an on....

 

[480sparky]

Well OK , if it's ethical to splice left over cable rather than a complete run from the electrical panel to the range/oven then I assume it's also OK to use { in this same house } old breakers just clean them up a little bit first - maybe even old junction boxes - wire nuts - covers etc. and that list can go on an on....

There's a world of difference between new/shop stock wire and used/unknown history breakers.