Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
Since we can apply the rules of a motor to over fused wire can it apply to a garbage disposal ? I will exsplain reason i ask after a few replies
Disposal on #14 protected at 20 amps ?
- Thread starter Jim W in Tampa
- Start date
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Hard wired, I would say yes, however, if the motor was 6 amps or less the breaker could not exceed 15 amps.
(assuming disposal motors are not marked with a duty cycle per 430.22(E) ...I've never noticed)
(assuming disposal motors are not marked with a duty cycle per 430.22(E) ...I've never noticed)
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
Reason i am asking is because while doing my kitchen remodel first i found that one of my SA receptacles serving counter top was also supplying the pig. That alone i know is a violation but being the receptacle and pig are the only items on this circuit and in 11 years never caused a problem. Well today i got another surprise in that the switched leg from switch is only #14 to the disposal. Is one other issue in that it is cord and plug. That part is easy to fix. So now what i have is a duplex receptacle (being changed to gfi ) and a disposal. Would be major pain to change and i really don't see it as hazard. I know violation but is this safe ? #12 on 20 amp breaker feed the duplex. Pig is 1/2 hp
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electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Jim, let me point out that if this were someone else posting this you would be RIPPING them and screaming about doing it right and liability and blah blah blah. Just saying.
- Location
- Massachusetts
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
That's only for people who don't know, now for our own homes, well, we all know what's going on and the rules are different for us. :grin::grin:
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
Have you been in my basement?
Whoever wired my home had put in a 2-pole switch on the water heater circuit. One evening I kept smelling burnt, and traced it down to that switch. The plastic box was melting. I pulled out the switch and wire nutted (flying splice) the circuit back together, with the intention to fix it..... soon.
2 years later and many nagging request from the wife, I finally got around to fixing it. From what I've seen and heard, this kind of stuff is not that uncommon.
I still have a old live two wire NM circuit nutted and heat shrink taped up sticking out of the wall on a side door of my house. The other side of the door has a carriage light on it that is working. Its hideous looking but I bought the house like that over a year ago. I put in a gfci breaker when I moved in. For me to replace it, I will have to cut a bunch of holes, fishing wont work. I'm a bit lazy when it comes to my house right now and I don't want PVC on the outside of the house.
So no its not uncommon to be lazy in one owns house.
Its like my mothers boyfriend is a plumber. He has a bucket under a main shut off in his basement. Been there for over a year, but he has to shut off the water at the street to fix it.
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
Yes i would. This is simply the mess i bought with this place. But what i am looking at here is what NEC says about motors and being allowed to upsize the breaker. So what i have is really 4 violations. I will fix one easy by installing a gfi receptacle. I can easilly change the plug and receptacle under sink to some carflex and direct wire. The other 2 violations are not so easy. What i should do is run a dedicated circuit to the pig ,fuse at 15 and just use the 14-2 i have as just for the switch. If that was not a half day problem i would do it. My real question here is do i have a serious hazard ? I know NEC says violation.
On a side note, is this something a HI would have caught ?
I do have 54SA circuits in my kitchen plus another just for frig so i am well over wired.
Bigrig
Member
- Location
- Dayton, OH
It is amazing what previous homeowners did in the house I purchased eight years ago. After removing the basement ceiling (should have paid more attention to that, a ceiling in a 6'-8" basement?) I discovered the old K&T, NM, NM-B, MC, extension cords and bell wire. Included live wires sticking through the ceiling (apparently they just cut them off when whatever they served was removed). In the portion of the basement finished with fiber ceiling tiles they actually hit the K&T with nails for the furring strips. Fixed the seriously dangerous issues, and plan on rewiring the entire house someday as I have NO idea what sort of mess is inside the walls.
And don't even get me started on the plumbing...
And don't even get me started on the plumbing...
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
That's right. Being a professional means knowing how to break the rules properly.
I did that once, to suit a customer. This house had the prettiest utility room I ever saw, and he didn't want a typical disco on the wall, so I put a 30a 2p Leviton toggle in the wall.
(Maybe I should have used a box.
())
brantmacga
Señor Member
- Location
- Georgia
- Occupation
- Former Child
Have you been in my basement?
aren't you the guy w/ nqod panelboards in your basement? hardly a hack job i would think.
or do i have you confused with someone else?
LarryFine said:
ha. that made me laugh.
If the 54SA circuits is not a typo you really do have a lot of circuits in your kitchen.:grin:
mikeames
Senior Member
- Location
- Germantown MD
- Occupation
- Teacher - Master Electrician - 2017 NEC
Ha yea hes got two panels just for the kitchen...... I can see the labels "Kitchen Panel 1A", "Kitchen panel 1B"....... "Panel for the rest of the house"
Every time I think of hackign something I think about this forum and think how I would be ripped if a member were watching me. Thats enough for me to grumble to myself and do it right. Only one time I hacked it.....
I lived in a townhouse and finished the basement. The panel was a split bus and I only needed one more space. That one more breaker was my 7th throw..... Opps It stayed that way until we moved and the inspector for the buyers never caught it, but he caught the bad GFI on the deck. In any event I fixed it before we moved out.
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
e57
Senior Member
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
Is it a "motor" or is it an "appliance" - I say the later -first.
Anyway - Rather than beat my head against the wall about protection of small conductors - I'll say why not fuse it at 50A the trip curve is roughly the same....
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Jim if your talking about the cord and plug being #14 then I see no violation, we use 16/3 UL listed desposal cords all the time, but if the wires in the wall to the switch is #14 then I would say there is a violation, but to me I don't see the danger since it only feeds one load, if it fed a bunch of receptacles where more could be plugged in then yes it would be a very big danger, remember the overload in the disposal will protect the wire from over load, and the 20 amp breaker will still trip on a fault.
But this is only my opinion.
the saying goes, Mechanics drive the worst cars
plumbers have the leakiest houses,
And electrician's have the worst wiring in there houses.:grin:
But this is only my opinion.
the saying goes, Mechanics drive the worst cars
plumbers have the leakiest houses,
And electrician's have the worst wiring in there houses.:grin:
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
The pig draws 4.5 amps so no chance of overload. The #14 is the romex going to the receptacle under the sink. So what i have is a motor on #14. I know the hole setup violates nec but has worked fine for 11 years. I will in time likely fix it right. The place was built in 73 so has a few issues and i been fixing as time permits. I usually am over on what i install but this was something i just discovered while remodeling. This one of them i wont get paid type jobs.
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