Make ice or buy it?

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chris kennedy

Senior Member
Location
Miami Fla.
Occupation
60 yr old tool twisting electrician
I'm going through over 10#'s of ice a day here, some times I make it at home and more often I pay $1.59 TO $2.29 For 10 pounds. If my freezer draws 1.5A is there a way to figure the BTU consumed and how that relates to KWH consumed?

Thanks.
 

nakulak

Senior Member
find a good commercial restaurant supply and buy a used ice machine in decent shape, (or a new one).
 

chris kennedy

Senior Member
Location
Miami Fla.
Occupation
60 yr old tool twisting electrician
We have an ice machine at the shop but I try to avoid that place. I was looking to find out if it is cost affective to make it or buy it.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
If your fridge is capable of making 10 lbs of ice a day, I'm very impressed. Unless you have 20 ice trays and a big freezer.

If you're dumping it into a cooler, and not making single drinks, I'd say the convenience alone makes buying it worthwhile.
 

rattus

Senior Member
Heat of fusion:

Heat of fusion:

I'm going through over 10#'s of ice a day here, some times I make it at home and more often I pay $1.59 TO $2.29 For 10 pounds. If my freezer draws 1.5A is there a way to figure the BTU consumed and how that relates to KWH consumed?

Thanks.

Look up "heat of fusion for water". Once the temperature falls to 32 degrees, additional heat must be removed to make ice. My book says that the heat of fusion is 144 BTU/pound (mass).

It has to be cheaper to make it if you have the freezer already, but if you have to shell out a few hundred for an ice machine, then it may not be the thing to do.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Ice is very profitable, I wired a large ice plant, they were making good money, and their customers are making extremely good money. The wholesale price on a bag of ice was around 28 cents if I remember correctly.
 

mivey

Senior Member
If the machine is inside, don't forget the cost to go through the home A/C to pump the heat outside.
 

rattus

Senior Member
Ice is very profitable, I wired a large ice plant, they were making good money, and their customers are making extremely good money. The wholesale price on a bag of ice was around 28 cents if I remember correctly.

Some of us remember the ice houses and the horse drawn wagons which delivered it. The kids would follow along to pick up any small chunks which may fall out of the wagon.
 

walkerj

Senior Member
Location
Baton Rouge
There are these little places everywhere around here that are self-contained ice stores.

You put in $1.50 and it spits out 20 lbs of ice.

I use my change from the day before for ice everyday:cool:
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
100808-1933 EST

chris:

I am not in condition to answer your question with accuracy. Meaning I do not know where is some data.

Here is some ballpark idea and then I will tell you how to make a measurement.

I have two freezers, both old. One was bought in 1972 for about $350 is 18 cubic feet and has never been serviced. Runs very well in the garage even below zero. The second is newer to us, slightly smaller, maybe 14 to 16 cubic feet, and only cost about $35. It also works in cold weather. Both will cool to an average temperature of about 0 deg F. with an ambient of 85 degree F, and a duty cycle of around 50%.

The power consumption for each is about 400 W at the start of the cooling cycle and thru the cycle gradually drops to about 320 W. So average consumption in the summer is about 160 W if nothing is added and door is kept shut.

Put about 2 quarts of fresh blackberries in one freezer the other day and these might have required 0.2 KWH to cool to 0 deg F from 85 deg F.


How you can run a controlled experiment. Get a Kill-A-Watt EZ. Monitor your freezer for maybe 6 cool-warm cycles. Start monitoring at the start of a cool period and end at the end of a warm cycle. Probably do this over night. From this you get your average heat absorption from the outside to inside. Do not open the door over this period, do not put anything in the freezer for maybe 4 hours before the test.

You should know your average internal temperature and average ambient temperature. Hopefully the ambient will be fairly stable.

Ideally you need a thermocouple in the water you are going to freeze to monitor its temperature. But not essential.

Use a large known quantity of water in your test. Maybe 4 gallons in small containers.

It is my recollection it took more than a day to cool 1 gallon to 0 deg from room temperature. This was in a plastic gallon jug.

At the beginning of a cool period put your water in the freezer. Monitor the KWH used from this point until the water reaches the average of the freezer and end the KWH collection at the end of the warming period. This energy is the normal loss thru the box plus the additional energy to cool the water. You need the total time of this test, and the average power from the first test, meaning you also needed its time. Multiply the average power of the first test by the time of the second test, and subtract that calculated energy of the first test from the energy of the second test and this result is the energy to cool your known amount of water. Some errors result from opening the door.

When my dad was a boy they had an uncooled ice house in the town. In the winter ice was cut from the lake and placed in the heavily insulated ice house. So the costs were labor, the capital to build the ice house, taxes, and some miscellaneous expenses. He was in an area where there were still snow banks on the ground at the 4ft of July.

.
 
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BJ Conner

Senior Member
Location
97006
Some of us remember the ice houses and the horse drawn wagons which delivered it. The kids would follow along to pick up any small chunks which may fall out of the wagon.


No horses, but when the iceman was away from the truck delivering ice with the tongs all the small chunks on the back of the truck were ours.
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
100808-2243 EST

chris:

I am revising down my guess as to the first amount of water to use for an experiment to 1 pint to 1 quart. You have a fairly small freezer.

.
 

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
Seems to me if you already have your freezer for other uses, the cost of freezing additional ice is miniscule. Years ago, when I worked tobacco farms in the summer, the farmer would use plastic Cool Whip containers. Freeze them overnight, put 2 in the cooler. They would last all day in a 5 gallon cooler, with 2 refills of water. Try this, you will find larger chunks last longer and are quicker to handle than cubes. Saves a little $ at the store and the time to stop there.
 

broadgage

Senior Member
Location
London, England
In almost all circumstances it will be cheaper to make ice than buy it.
Water and electricity both cost money whether used in your home or by an ice making businesses, but remember that ice making busineses makes a profit.

If only a little ice is required, then this is best made in ice trays in a freezer/frozen food compartment of a fridge.

For more substantial ice demands a proper icemaking machine is the way to go, in a well ventilated but NOT conditioned space.
An ice maker is inadvisable for very small demands since it consumes electricity (to replace the ice that melts in the bin) even if no ice is used.
If you have a "time of use" electricity tariff, then it may be worth useing a timeswitch to turn the icemaker off at the most expensive times of day.

If the ice will come into direct contact with food or drink, then ice made at home may be more hygeinic.
If you need to drive to purchase ice, dont forget the cost of gasoline, you can buy several KWH for the cost of even a pint of fuel.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I'm going through over 10#'s of ice a day here, some times I make it at home and more often I pay $1.59 TO $2.29 For 10 pounds. If my freezer draws 1.5A is there a way to figure the BTU consumed and how that relates to KWH consumed?

Thanks.

What do restaurants do?

I think that answers the question.
 
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