Article 210.12(B) AFCI Requirements

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Welcome to the forum.:)

Under the 2008 a laundry area is not one of the areas listed in 210.12(B) so no AFCI protection is required for outlets in the laundry area.

Chris
 
raider1 said:
Welcome to the forum.:)

Under the 2008 a laundry area is not one of the areas listed in 210.12(B) so no AFCI protection is required for outlets in the laundry area.

Chris
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Chris, The ahj in Colorado is using the NEC handbook and in the authors notes it lists around 5 areas that are note required to be afci protected and laundry rm. is not one of them. Therefor it is required according to him. I then asked why dispoals, dishwashers, microwaves, sump pumps, sewage lift stations and the like are not required. He didn't know. How is a laundry rm. considered a simular area in article 210.12(B). He said its not, but he is going off the authors notes in the handbook. I informed the author of the handbook unlickly was on the code making panel for this code change. Do you think this is out of the ordanary.
 
duftelectrical1978 said:
Chris, The ahj in Colorado is using the NEC handbook and in the authors notes it lists around 5 areas that are note required to be afci protected and laundry rm. is not one of them. Therefor it is required according to him. I then asked why dispoals, dishwashers, microwaves, sump pumps, sewage lift stations and the like are not required. He didn't know. How is a laundry rm. considered a simular area in article 210.12(B). He said its not, but he is going off the authors notes in the handbook. I informed the author of the handbook unlickly was on the code making panel for this code change. Do you think this is out of the ordanary.
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The commentary in the NEC Handbook is NOT enforceable as code.

The AHJ is mistaken, a laundry area is not similar to any of the areas listed in 210.12(B) and therefore is not required to be AFCI protected.

Just because the laundry area was not included in the commentaries list of areas that don't need AFCI protection should in no way be construed to mean that the code language itself requires AFCI protection of outlets in a laundry area.

Chris
 
DE1978,

Welcome to the forum.:)

The headbanger above me is right 99% of the time and I think he is correct on this one 100%. Laundry/utility rooms are not listed.

(B) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and
20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in
dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms,
parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation
rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be
protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter,
combination-type, installed to provide protection of the
branch circuit.
 
duftelectrical1978 said:
The ahj in Colorado is using the NEC handbook and in the authors notes it lists around 5 areas that are note required to be afci protected and laundry rm. is not one of them. Therefor it is required according to him.
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Only the NEC is adopted as law. The Handbook, while it contains the NEC, also has commentary. The commentary is not the NEC, nor part of the NEC. The commentary is only the opinion of the authors of the Handbook (albeit very helpful opinion, but only opinion about the enforceable language none the less).

And, most certainly, the commentary has not been adopted by your local jurisdiction into law.
duftelectrical1978 said:
How is a laundry rm. considered a simular area in article 210.12(B). He said its not, but he is going off the authors notes in the handbook. I informed the author of the handbook unlickly was on the code making panel for this code change. Do you think this is out of the ordanary.
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Here, he is admitting that the NEC language doesn't support his position. This is where he should stop.
 
IMO it depends on the location. In a separate laundry room then no AFCI required, but around here many washers and dryers are installed in a hall closet outside of the bedrooms. That would require AFCI protection since closets are on the list that jumper posted.
 
infinity said:
IMO it depends on the location. In a separate laundry room then no AFCI required, but around here many washers and dryers are installed in a hall closet outside of the bedrooms. That would require AFCI protection since closets are on the list that jumper posted.
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So would the closet be a "laundry area" as contemplated in 210.52(F) or is it just a closet with a clothes washing machine in it?

If it's not considered a laundry area would 210.52(F) even apply? If it is considered a laundry area to comply with 210.52(F) then would 210.12(B) apply to the laundry area?

Pete
 
pete m. said:
So would the closet be a "laundry area" as contemplated in 210.52(F) or is it just a closet with a clothes washing machine in it?

If it's not considered a laundry area would 210.52(F) even apply? If it is considered a laundry area to comply with 210.52(F) then would 210.12(B) apply to the laundry area?

Pete
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A closet must have afci protection. So if the washer/dryer is in a closet it requires afci protection because it is not a laundry room it's a closet with a washer/dryer in it.
 
pete m. said:
So would the closet be a "laundry area" as contemplated in 210.52(F) or is it just a closet with a clothes washing machine in it?

If it's not considered a laundry area would 210.52(F) even apply? If it is considered a laundry area to comply with 210.52(F) then would 210.12(B) apply to the laundry area?

Pete
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I tend to agree that a "closet" that contains a washer and dryer would be a laundry area as specified in 210.52(F) and the AFCI requirements of 210.12(B) would not apply to the laundry area.

Chris
 
jwjrw said:
A closet must have afci protection. So if the washer/dryer is in a closet it requires afci protection because it is not a laundry room it's a closet with a washer/dryer in it.
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Why would a "closet" that contains a washer and dryer not be a laundry area and a "Room" that contains the same equipment be a laundry area?

210.52(F) does not require the laundry to be located in a room but in an area.

Chris
 
raider1 said:
Why would a "closet" that contains a washer and dryer not be a laundry area and a "Room" that contains the same equipment be a laundry area?

210.52(F) does not require the laundry to be located in a room but in an area.

Chris
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Well a closet is a closet right? I can see your point though. ....
Infinity posted they call it a closet where he is. I guess it would depend on whether or not you define it as a closet or laundry area.
 
jwjrw said:
Well a closet is a closet right? I can see your point though. ....
Infinity posted they call it a closet where he is. I guess it would depend on whether or not you define it as a closet or laundry area.
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I've seen some pretty big closets.... big enough to put my kitchen and dining room in.

I guess ultimately, as with many interpretations, the AHJ has to make the call as to whether or not the location is a closet or laundry area or both...

Pete
 
pete m. said:
I've seen some pretty big closets.... big enough to put my kitchen and dining room in.

I guess ultimately, as with many interpretations, the AHJ has to make the call as to whether or not the location is a closet or laundry area or both...

Pete
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I agree.:D
 
infinity said:
IMO it depends on the location. In a separate laundry room then no AFCI required, but around here many washers and dryers are installed in a hall closet outside of the bedrooms. That would require AFCI protection since closets are on the list that jumper posted.
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What enforceable language do you use to determine that a space, with hot and cold water hookups, exhaust venting, gas line (if needed) and sewer, all sized for the common dwelling laundry machines, that a space is no longer a closet and is now a room or area?
 
al hildenbrand said:
What enforceable language do you use to determine that a space, with hot and cold water hookups, exhaust venting, gas line (if needed) and sewer, all sized for the common dwelling laundry machines, that a space is no longer a closet and is now a room or area?
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I can see them saying it is now a "laundry closet" because you cant go inside of it like an area or room. IDK. To me its a laundry room but I can see how it could still be a closet.
 
al hildenbrand said:
What enforceable language do you use to determine that a space, with hot and cold water hookups, exhaust venting, gas line (if needed) and sewer, all sized for the common dwelling laundry machines, that a space is no longer a closet and is now a room or area?
Click to expand...

I don't really see a definition either way. Take the machines out and you have a hall closet, put them in and now you have a room?
 
infinity said:
I don't really see a definition either way. Take the machines out and you have a hall closet, put them in and now you have a room?
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Understand what I'm asking. There is a dwelling space with all the laundry mechanicals installed. Those are planned to be there. The plan will designate this as a Laundry.

Just because someone "might" not use the expensive mechanicals, and, rather, install a closet system for clothes doesn't make the Laundry a closet, IMO.

If I hang clothes on a clothes bar in my 10' x 10' Laundry Room, is it now a closet, inspite of the plan label and the presence of the mechanicals? It is easier for this Laundry to be allowed to be "not a closet".

The 3.5' x 7' Laundry off the Hallway is what you call a closet. Somewhere between 10' x 10' and 3.5' x 7' the Laundry Room changes from a Room to a Closet. What is the threshhold of the change? 5' x 9'? 4' x 8'?
 
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