Bidding Post Light Changeouts

[mkgrady]

I'll be pricing a job at a condominium where they have about 55 post lights. The posts and lights are 22 years old. Posts are cedar with no concrete, just dirt. About 15 of them are 10 feet above grade along a road. The rest are in courtyards off the road and closer to the buildings. All are being replaced.

It's a tough tome of year to price this work because of all the snow but they want to get started on a budget before the snow melts and the ground thaws. I'm told the post lights are fed with UF cable direct buried from 4-5 buildings.

So I'm picturing, when I dig up a post I will mostly find two UF cables running up the inside of each post. I hope they left a little slack at the bottom. I will need to remove the UF and send it up a new post. The new posts are going to be vinyl. The taller ones will have a galvy pipe in the center and will need to be backfilled with concrete. The shorter ones can be backfilled with just dirt. In both cases the new post will be an inch or two wider than the existing which are all 4-1/2 inches wide.

My question is about labor and ideas. Can anybody help with manhours per post? The area has a lot of rock so the digging will likely be difficult at times. I will take exception to having to cut into any ledge (don't know if there is any) but I expect to find some rocks in the backfill. Any ideas that could make the job easier? One idea I had was to protect the old UF with a pvc sleeve while the digging is going on but that can't happen until I get the old post out of the way.

Thanks in advance, Mike

 

[mkgrady]

No responses. I'm surprised. Where did everybody go?

 

[cadpoint]

5 hours per pole + your price of the extraction tool + price of pole.

I'm thinking U'd be lucky @ 3.5 per pole(period) since bidding is tight! Parking & management - Dance

 

[CopperTone]

$125 in labor each post plus the material plus mark up on the material

$175 labor each for the tall ones

 

[mkgrady]

5 hours per pole + your price of the extraction tool + price of pole.

I'm thinking U'd be lucky @ 3.5 per pole(period) since bidding is tight! Parking & management - Dance

About extracting the old post. Any ideas what to use? I was thinking I could make up a tripod gizmo out of GRC and use a comealong to pull them out. Looking for better ideas.

 

[zombie]

The labor unit manual I use calls for 3.13 hrs each for a post lamp in an old work situation. Considering you know you are digging in rock, the teperature, how motivated the person digging and other conditions, you might want to adjust that number up

 

[cadpoint]

Drill a hole right thru the bottom (@ grade) and chain lift with the rental bore machine...

You might ge away with notching four corners at grade...

 

[mkgrady]

Drill a hole right thru the bottom (@ grade) and chain lift with the rental bore machine...

You might ge away with notching four corners at grade...

I didn't think to use a bore machine. I assume you are talking about the type that works on a Bobcat? Would you be using one of these machines in a rocky area? Even with no rocks how would I drill a hole with the existing UF in the way? I was thinking manual post hole digger and a shovel for the rocks I expect to encounter, but I prefer to use a machine if it is feasable.

 

[JES2727]

My feeling is that once you get started, and develop a method, a team of two should be able to do 3 to 4 poles per day.

 

[cadpoint]

I'd consider renting some ground-wire detection equipment. Once you isolate your conductors you could sleeve that in galavize pipe, if required. You going to have to manually get down to depth.

I'd rent two bobcat drill bits, with the smallest you can get and drill on the back side to loosen it up. Harbor Freight sells alot of ground working tools thats seems inexpensive but worth a look. A cheater bar, a pick, trench shovel, a compactor, etc.

I also agree with the 3-4 a day, also consider your work hours might be prohibited, like no saturday work before 10 AM, some areas have rules... Only work around apartments during the 9 to 3 hours. It's just subjective, but you have to be aware of your enivorment.

Good Luck with your bid!

 

[mkgrady]

I'd consider renting some ground-wire detection equipment. Once you isolate your conductors you could sleeve that in galavize pipe, if required. You going to have to manually get down to depth.

I'd rent two bobcat drill bits, with the smallest you can get and drill on the back side to loosen it up. Harbor Freight sells alot of ground working tools thats seems inexpensive but worth a look. A cheater bar, a pick, trench shovel, a compactor, etc.

I also agree with the 3-4 a day, also consider your work hours might be prohibited, like no saturday work before 10 AM, some areas have rules... Only work around apartments during the 9 to 3 hours. It's just subjective, but you have to be aware of your enivorment.

Good Luck with your bid!

The galvy pipe is to protect the UF while digging only?

 

[cadpoint]

Yes, protection if you have to have it or need it, I frankly think as soon as One gets a few feet down is will wobble loose, with the crew man handling it.

 

[cadpoint]

If you have a large concrete bit and large hammer drill, one might just get away with this technic, Once you know the circuits directions.

 

[mkgrady]

If you have a large concrete bit and large hammer drill, one might just get away with this technic, Once you know the circuits directions.

You mean the hammer drill and large bit would be in lieu of a skid steer mounted auger? Or are you talking about to assist in hand digging with a post hole digging tool?

 

[zombie]

Hammer drill with a wide asphalt blade chops right through rock.

 

[220/221]

My one suggestion would be to install flush underground Jboxes and set the new poles next to them. It will make future work easier (troubleshooting and replacing poles)

The removal sounds like hand work. You will have to dig one up and see how the wire is run and fed up the post in order to find a technique.

The replacement may be hand work also. If you use the JB/relocate technique. you could possibly drill the holes with power equipment.

Sounds to me like they could be done in a couple hours so I'd bid them for four.

 

[CopperTone]

I'll be pricing a job at a condominium where they have about 55 post lights. The posts and lights are 22 years old. Posts are cedar with no concrete, just dirt. About 15 of them are 10 feet above grade along a road. The rest are in courtyards off the road and closer to the buildings. All are being replaced.

It's a tough tome of year to price this work because of all the snow but they want to get started on a budget before the snow melts and the ground thaws. I'm told the post lights are fed with UF cable direct buried from 4-5 buildings.

So I'm picturing, when I dig up a post I will mostly find two UF cables running up the inside of each post. I hope they left a little slack at the bottom. I will need to remove the UF and send it up a new post. The new posts are going to be vinyl. The taller ones will have a galvy pipe in the center and will need to be backfilled with concrete. The shorter ones can be backfilled with just dirt. In both cases the new post will be an inch or two wider than the existing which are all 4-1/2 inches wide.

My question is about labor and ideas. Can anybody help with manhours per post? The area has a lot of rock so the digging will likely be difficult at times. I will take exception to having to cut into any ledge (don't know if there is any) but I expect to find some rocks in the backfill. Any ideas that could make the job easier? One idea I had was to protect the old UF with a pvc sleeve while the digging is going on but that can't happen until I get the old post out of the way.

Thanks in advance, Mike

we did this same job last summer - fence guys removed the old and installed the new plastic posts, we installed the new post light. we all did 30 in one day. you can't do this with the ground frozen. the old posts came out pretty easy. Check to be sure the old ones are not cemented in the ground before pricing. it actually was pretty easy to do this job.
The fence company had a crew of 4 (laborers) and we had 2 licensed electricians on the site. 32 laborer man hours and 16 man hours for electricians per day for 30posts. that comes out to 1.6 hrs per post in labor.

So to be safe make it 2 man hrs per post plus materials and throw in a contingency that if the wiring is bad it will be repaired and installed at T&M prices.

 

[mkgrady]

we did this same job last summer - fence guys removed the old and installed the new plastic posts, we installed the new post light. we all did 30 in one day. you can't do this with the ground frozen. the old posts came out pretty easy. Check to be sure the old ones are not cemented in the ground before pricing. it actually was pretty easy to do this job.
The fence company had a crew of 4 (laborers) and we had 2 licensed electricians on the site. 32 laborer man hours and 16 man hours for electricians per day for 30posts. that comes out to 1.6 hrs per post in labor.

So to be safe make it 2 man hrs per post plus materials and throw in a contingency that if the wiring is bad it will be repaired and installed at T&M prices.

Did you just re-use the old UF cable? Did that present any problems?

Did the fence company charge much to do the R&R? Maybe I'll ask the post (fence company) supplier to provide an option price to remove and replace.

Were the new posts cemented in? Were any of them tall like the 9 footers (AFG) I am proposing? (The rest are 6 feet AFG)

 

[mgmelec]

why not cut the old post just below grade and install new post adjacent. mount fs box with blank cover at base of new post.

 

[mkgrady]

why not cut the old post just below grade and install new post adjacent. mount fs box with blank cover at base of new post.

That is interesting. How would I cut the existing post without cutting the UF cables running up the center?

I would worry about digging into the UF that is lying at the base of the existing post.