Power Bridge

[Dennis Alwon]

This is the setup.

 

[charlie b]

Charlie my understanding is one end is male and the other female. You plud a cord similar to one from a monitor into the wall outlet and plug the other end into the male receptacle in the wall. The other end is reversed.

If you are describing how this system works, I think I am agreeing with this description. If you are describing what you think the NEC has to say about what comprises an "attachment plug," then I do not understand your point. Are you agreeing with my calling this a violation, or not, and what is your reason for seeing it one way or the other?

 

[roger]

Ditto.

It is my opinion that the in-wall portion is made of an approved wiring method,

And IMO that is all that matters [/quote]

and the flexible cord section, with plug and socket, are not being used as a permanent wiring method.

And I agree that the cord portion is not being used as permanent wiring and regardless, it could be across town being used on an electric weed eater at the time of any inspections, it is not part of the in wall wiring. Heck, if I'm around and need an extension cord the one that comes with this product will always be disconnected and re connected, it definitly would not be a permanent connection.

Roger

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I wanted to discuss this tidbit as well. Al and I and a number of other members had an interesting discussion some time ago on the subject of what is, and what is not, an outlet.

Are these two things "outlets"? To be specific, are they part of the "premises wiring system"? For that matter, is the set of conductors that connects the two a part of the "premises wiring system"? I get the impression from the vendor's web site that they do not consider this to be the case. The two "boxes" (for the moment, I choose not to call them "outlets") are connected to each other by permanent wires and proper terminations. But they are not connected to the circuit breaker or to any other conductors in the house by any permanent means. So does that exclude them from being within the "premises wiring system," or not?

Well you make a good point however I really don't see any safety issue with this. It is a matter of code interpretation but not safety , IMO.

 

[mivey]

Any issues?

Well, assuming all of this is code compliant, it would seem you could buy the components separately for at least 1/2 the MSRP price or even slightly below their 50% off special ($15 for inlet, $7 for outlet, $2-$3 for the cable pass-through, plus the other common stuff). I've never used any of these so I can't speak to the quality of one over the other. If you don't mind a weather-proof product, you could even get the inlet for about $10 or less from someone like Leviton.

The site states they do not sell their components separately, but you can get the same type products from other places. Search Midlite products.

That said, the other available products also appear to be listed, certified, etc. so this must not be something new.

 

[LarryFine]

I would do it within the rules of the NEC and as I am not sure what you are describing that is the best I can answer.

Okay. Let's say you want to hang a flat-panel TV on the wall, so you need to install a recessed receptacle in the wall where the TV will be mounted.

You want the TV to be supplied, not only by the same circuit as the rest of the system, but by the same multi-outlet surge/noise strip or even UPS.

How would you do it, including more detail than "compliantly," please?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I can also argue, as I said before, that since it is not wired to the power of the building then the nec is silent on this issue.

 

[LarryFine]

The thing I find funny is it seems the AHJ has already made their position clear and IMO 90.4 gives them the right to turn down a product so nothing we say can change things one way or another.

Everyone has a supervisor for a reason, and most jurisdictions have a decision-appealing process.

 

[al hildenbrand]

I wanted to discuss this tidbit as well. Al and I and a number of other members had an interesting discussion some time ago on the subject of what is, and what is not, an outlet.

That's the best guffaw I've had in days.

I'm still chuckling.

Your gift for understatement is supreme. :grin:

 

[charlie b]

. . . I really don't see any safety issue with this. It is a matter of code interpretation but not safety , IMO.

I have to agree with this.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

You want the TV to be supplied, not only by the same circuit as the rest of the system, but by the same multi-outlet surge/noise strip or even UPS.

How would you do it, including more detail than "compliantly," please?

I believe this is the reason the manufacturers designed this setup.

 

[mivey]

I wanted to discuss this tidbit as well. Al and I and a number of other members had an interesting discussion some time ago on the subject of what is, and what is not, an outlet.

Are these two things "outlets"? To be specific, are they part of the "premises wiring system"? For that matter, is the set of conductors that connects the two a part of the "premises wiring system"?...

I am in a bit of a quandary over what part of the code covers what part of this installation. I'm just not sure.

 

[charlie b]

Okay. Let's say you want to hang a flat-panel TV on the wall, so you need to install a recessed receptacle in the wall where the TV will be mounted. You want the TV to be supplied, not only by the same circuit as the rest of the system, but by the same multi-outlet surge/noise strip or even UPS. How would you do it, including more detail than "compliantly," please?

Simple. Let the wires dangle from the TV?s location down to the location of the other components.

WAIT! Ugly, you say. What does ya mean ?ugly?? I works with wyres for a liven and you is sayin my world is ?ugly?? How doest thou durst! I thinks my wyres is prety.

 

[LarryFine]

I don't see anything that restricts that defintion to meaning the male end of an extension cord or a component's power cord.

I do:

Attachment Plug (Plug Cap) (Plug). A device that, by
insertion in a receptacle, establishes a connection between
the conductors of the attached flexible cord and the conductors
connected permanently to the receptacle.

To me, it's clear that a plug is male and a receptacle is female. The slots of a socket cannot be "inserted in" the blades of an inlet.

[quote=charlie b;1291251]So if I can call the female end of a standard extension cord an "attachment plug," and if I can call a permanently installed box with visible, external male prongs a "receptacle," by virtue of the wording of the article 100 definitions of those two terms, I still see a violation of 406.6(B): [/quote]And, if you can't call them that?:

Receptacle. A receptacle is a contact device installed at the
outlet for the connection of an attachment plug.

There's obviously a difference between an outlet and an inlet:

Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is
taken to supply utilization equipment.

Receptacle Outlet. An outlet where one or more receptacles
are installed.

It's clear to me that an inlet is not an outlet.

 

[mivey]

Well you make a good point however I really don't see any safety issue with this. It is a matter of code interpretation but not safety , IMO.

I would have to agree with that, other than the in-wall wiring is installed without any oversight whatsoever. We say it is code compliant but then say it is not really under the code so where does that leave the AHJ?

 

[LarryFine]

But they are not connected to the circuit breaker or to any other conductors in the house by any permanent means. So does that exclude them from being within the "premises wiring system," or not?

It does. What if I used NM as in-wall speaker wiring? Does it now become part of the premises wiring system?

 

[mivey]

Okay. Let's say you want to hang a flat-panel TV on the wall, so you need to install a recessed receptacle in the wall where the TV will be mounted.

Is that a need or a want? I agree it would look a lot better, but so do entertainment centers. Now we just have an entertainment center without the cabinet to cover the ugly parts.

 

[mivey]

I can also argue, as I said before, that since it is not wired to the power of the building then the nec is silent on this issue.

You could, but if the wire in the wall is not NEC stuff, how do we say it is compliant with the NEC?

 

[LarryFine]

I believe this is the reason the manufacturers designed this setup.

Same with me, and I've been doing this for many more years than these kits have been available, and for far less cost.

 

[al hildenbrand]

It's clear to me that an inlet is not an outlet.

[Applause] Clapping ! ! [/Applause]