Clearance below overhead service drop

[sfav8r]

I'd like peoples opinions on this. We just did an overhead rewire. As the picture shows, there is a balcony outside of a window on this home. The only access to the balcony is if you crawl out the window and the balcony is only 12 inches deep. It's basically to set plants on. We reused the existing conduit which is in the wall. It exits the face of the building at a point that is 8-1/2 feet above the balcony and 6" to the left of the balcony so it is not OVER the balcony at any point. The inspector failed the inspection because he says there has to be 10' of clearance above the balcony. I feel this is a bad call for several reasons.

1) 230.24(B)(1) says that the clearance must be 10' for the portion of wire that is over the balcony. Since there is no part of the wire over the balcony I don't see the problem.

2) What is the real-world risk here? A person is going to climb out the window, climb up on the railing and grab the wires? They can't even use a ladder because the balcony being only 12" deep wouldn't allow you to lean the ladder at a good enough angle to climb on it.

FYI the wire that crosses over the balcony is the CATV wire. The service drop is next to the down spout and enters opposite the balcony. The 1/2 EMT is being held up just as a reference so you can see how the balcony lines up with the service drop.

What do you think? I plan to speak directly to the inspector and ask him to reconsider (one of my guys was there for the inspection) and if he still feels it's a reasonable call I run it by his boss. I'm just curious if most of you agree that the world won't be a better place if we raise this.

Thanks

 

[OregonSE]

I think that scince you are using the {existing}conduit you have a legit complaint. Raise ,shorten or turn away from balcony the drip loop for a little more clearance or point of aattachment.

I'd like peoples opinions on this. We just did an overhead rewire. As the picture shows, there is a balcony outside of a window on this home. The only access to the balcony is if you crawl out the window and the balcony is only 12 inches deep. It's basically to set plants on. We reused the existing conduit which is in the wall. It exits the face of the building at a point that is 8-1/2 feet above the balcony and 6" to the left of the balcony so it is not OVER the balcony at any point. The inspector failed the inspection because he says there has to be 10' of clearance above the balcony. I feel this is a bad call for several reasons.

1) 230.24(B)(1) says that the clearance must be 10' for the portion of wire that is over the balcony. Since there is no part of the wire over the balcony I don't see the problem.

2) What is the real-world risk here? A person is going to climb out the window, climb up on the railing and grab the wires? They can't even use a ladder because the balcony being only 12" deep wouldn't allow you to lean the ladder at a good enough angle to climb on it. View attachment 5394

FYI the wire that crosses over the balcony is the CATV wire. The service drop is next to the down spout and enters opposite the balcony. The 1/2 EMT is being held up just as a reference so you can see how the balcony lines up with the service drop.

What do you think? I plan to speak directly to the inspector and ask him to reconsider (one of my guys was there for the inspection) and if he still feels it's a reasonable call I run it by his boss. I'm just curious if most of you agree that the world won't be a better place if we raise this.

Thanks

 

[iwire]

I might remind the inspector of 90.2(B)

90.2 Scope.

(B) Not Covered. This Code does not cover the following:

(5) Installations under the exclusive control of an electric
utility where such installations

a. Consist of service drops or service laterals, and associated
metering,

Service Drop. The overhead service conductors from the
last pole or other aerial support to and including the splices,
if any, connecting to the service-entrance conductors at the
building or other structure.

 

[Bullcub145]

I was always taught that on a "new" installation that you had to clear 5' above the top of the window and 3' from the side of the window. Since this is a using an existing drop then I would assume you are ok, considering that I just found out that the code only applies to new or replacement systems. (Which I don't agree with.) You may want to check with your local outside utility department and ask them.

 

[Bullcub145]

Is this an actual service drop? Where is the meter located?

 

[growler]

I'd like peoples opinions on this. We just did an overhead rewire. As the picture shows, there is a balcony outside of a window on this home. The only access to the balcony is if you crawl out the window and the balcony is only 12 inches deep. It's basically to set plants on. We reused the existing conduit which is in the wall. It exits the face of the building at a point that is 8-1/2 feet above the balcony and 6" to the left of the balcony so it is not OVER the balcony at any point. The inspector failed the inspection because he says there has to be 10' of clearance above the balcony. I feel this is a bad call for several reasons.

1) 230.24(B)(1) says that the clearance must be 10' for the portion of wire that is over the balcony. Since there is no part of the wire over the balcony I don't see the problem.

I would have a hard time calling something like that a balcony. Looks more like some sort of ornamental iron work that exist to set plants on and not a useable balconey.

Is there any way that it would be considered safe for anyone to actually use as a balcony? I would think that any sort of useable area would need to be more than 12" deep.

If you call this thing an iron ornamental flower box things would be much more simple.

 

[hotwire1955]

As long as you are 3' from the side of the window, as your picture shows, you are in compliance with the code 230.9(A)

 

[ronaldrc]

Heres code book reference

You be the judge

 

[iwire]

Again I point out that nothing in the NEC applies to these utility owned conductors.

 

[sfav8r]

Again I point out that nothing in the NEC applies to these utility owned conductors.

I like your thinking, but what about the drop itself? I know your original post said up through the metering, but are you saying that the inspector cannot apply the code at all up through the meter? That doesn't make sense to me, or am I missing your point.

Thanks.

 

[ronaldrc]

Bob noted here

 

[iwire]

Again I point out that nothing in the NEC applies to these utility owned conductors.

I like your thinking, but what about the drop itself? I know your original post said up through the metering, but are you saying that the inspector cannot apply the code at all up through the meter? That doesn't make sense to me, or am I missing your point.

In most cases when dealing with overhead services the NEC starts on the customer side of the splices at the weatherhead. The local NEC inspector has no authority over the conductors from the pole to the home.

As an example 230.42 requires certain ratings for service conductors but that is not applied to the overhead drop as those are outside the scope of the NEC.

 

[sfav8r]

In most cases when dealing with overhead services the NEC starts on the customer side of the splices at the weatherhead. The local NEC inspector has no authority over the conductors from the pole to the home.

As an example 230.42 requires certain ratings for service conductors but that is not applied to the overhead drop as those are outside the scope of the NEC.

OK I think we're on the same page then. We are talking about the point where the drop is spliced at the weatherhead so the inspectors jurisdiction starts there. I still say the we're in compliance because the conductors are not OVER the balcony, they are 6" to the left and never pass over the balcony. do you agree that since they don't pass over the balcony there is no 10' requirement? I am referring to ) 230.24(B)(1).

 

[hotwire1955]

No, you need to be 3' or more from the side of the window opening with open conductors.

 

[Bullcub145]

No, you need to be 3' or more from the side of the window opening with open conductors.

I would have to agree here. You have to maintain the 3' rule, and the 5' rule is from the top of the window (which I know you aren't directly above the window), so you might be ok here.

Hey guys, is there a dimension for diagonally from the window? Cause technically he could have a weather head in the diagonal section from the window and be ok? I cant remember and I don't have my code book in front of me. Does the 3' foot rule proceed up 5' from the side as well? I would think it should but need some refrences on here to know for sure.

 

[hotwire1955]

I would have to agree here. You have to maintain the 3' rule, and the 5' rule is from the top of the window (which I know you aren't directly above the window), so you might be ok here.

Hey guys, is there a dimension for diagonally from the window? Cause technically he could have a weather head in the diagonal section from the window and be ok? I cant remember and I don't have my code book in front of me. Does the 3' foot rule proceed up 5' from the side as well? I would think it should but need some refrences on here to know for sure.

5' rule? The open conductors can be above the window.

 

[Bullcub145]

I am wrong about the 5' rule. Although I was always taught to stay 5' above the window at all times.

Here is a past thread on the subject.
http://forums.mikeholt.com/archive/index.php/t-60198.html?

 

[sfav8r]

No, you need to be 3' or more from the side of the window opening with open conductors.

We're above the window. That shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Bullcub145]

230.9 Clearance From Building Openings

(A) Clearance From Windows. Overhead service conductors must maintain a clearance of 3 ft from windows that are designed to be opened, doors, porches, balconies, ladders, stairs, fire escapes, or similar locations.

This looks like this would eliminate his window from this rule. Am I correct then to assume that he is in the clear.

230.10 Vegetation as Support

Vegetation such as trees cannot be used for the support of overhead service conductors. Figure 230-9 230-10 cc230-01.cdr

Part II. Overhead Service-Drop Conductors

Author’s Comment: Overhead service-drop conductors installed by the electric utility must be in accordance with the National Electric Safety Code (NESC), not the NEC [90.2(B)(5)], but overhead service conductors not under the exclusive control of the electric utility must be installed in accordance with the NEC.

 

[hotwire1955]

230.9 Clearance From Building Openings

(A) Clearance From Windows. Overhead service conductors must maintain a clearance of 3 ft from windows that are designed to be opened, doors, porches, balconies, ladders, stairs, fire escapes, or similar locations.

This looks like this would eliminate his window from this rule. Am I correct then to assume that he is in the clear.

230.10 Vegetation as Support

Vegetation such as trees cannot be used for the support of overhead service conductors. Figure 230-9 230-10 cc230-01.cdr

Part II. Overhead Service-Drop Conductors

Author?s Comment: Overhead service-drop conductors installed by the electric utility must be in accordance with the National Electric Safety Code (NESC), not the NEC [90.2(B)(5)], but overhead service conductors not under the exclusive control of the electric utility must be installed in accordance with the NEC.

Looks like the window opens.