Commercial kitchen wiring methods

[stevebea]

A co-worker of mine and I are having a disagreement. He is making a blanket statement saying all commercial kitchens must be wired in MC or pipe.... no exceptions according to the NEC. I say " false, not true " but I can't find it in code to prove I'm right. Who's wrong?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

What about ac cable or wiremold. There are not many practical methods left once you eliminate mc and conduit.

 

[jumper]

A co-worker of mine and I are having a disagreement. He is making a blanket statement saying all commercial kitchens must be wired in MC or pipe.... no exceptions according to the NEC. I say " false, not true " but I can't find it in code to prove I'm right. Who's wrong?

Does this question have to do with using NM/romex by chance?

 

[stevebea]

Does this question have to do with using NM/romex by chance?

Yea...

 

[jumper]

Yea...

Short answer: NM is not specifically prohibited as a wiring method for commercial kitchens.

Long answer: See 334.10 and 334.12. It gets a little more complicated.

 

[augie47]

" a little more" ?? :grin:

 

[stevebea]

Short answer: NM is not specifically prohibited as a wiring method for commercial kitchens.

Long answer: See 334.10 and 334.12. It gets a little more complicated.

Thank you jumper! That's what I was looking for... the fact that it is not specifically prohibited. I realize it is a little more complicated than that as far as uses for NM but it was the fact he is such a " bullhead " making an absolute statement like that I just wanted to make sure it wasn't specifically prohibited. Thanks!

 

[infinity]

It depends on the prohibited constructions types for using NM cable. If all kitchens are constructed using one of those types then your co-worker is correct. And every commercial kitchen I've ever worked in had a hung ceiling where NM is prohibited too.

 

[stevebea]

It depends on the prohibited constructions types for using NM cable. If all kitchens are constructed using one of those types then your co-worker is correct. And every commercial kitchen I've ever worked in had a hung ceiling where NM is prohibited too.

I agree 100% Infinity. I'm just saying if it was a construction type that permited using NM it would be a compliant install to use NM in the walls as long as all wiring above the hung ceiling is MC.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I would agree with Infinity too. Most commercial kitchens are in an A type occupancy which would disallow the use of NM cable.

 

[M. D.]

In Mass even in type I & II buildings NM can be used ..It can also be used above dropped ceilings in other than dwelling units...

 

[dana1028]

I would agree with Infinity too. Most commercial kitchens are in an A type occupancy which would disallow the use of NM cable.

Where does it say that in the code? An A occupancy does not = Art. 518; An A occupancy = an assembly, but the load = 50 or more people. Art. 518 is an assembly of 100 people or more.

(As an inspector) I would argue that most commercial kitchens serve an occupant load of less than 100 people and thus NM is permitted [provided the structure types are Types III, IV, and V].

 

[cowboyjwc]

You go by the more restrictive code, which says an assembly is 50 people.

For years the NEC said that we needed an outlet within 75' of a rooftop AC unit and the mechanical code said that one was required within 25', so we always put one within 25'. Then the NEC finally matched up.

I keep trying to remind you guys that the NEC is not the "end all" of what you are required to install or not install.

 

[dana1028]

You go by the more restrictive code, which says an assembly is 50 people.

For years the NEC said that we needed an outlet within 75' of a rooftop AC unit and the mechanical code said that one was required within 25', so we always put one within 25'. Then the NEC finally matched up.

I keep trying to remind you guys that the NEC is not the "end all" of what you are required to install or not install.

I disagree - these 'other' codes speak directly to electrical issues, so when they 'conflict' with the electrical code it is about electrical issues so the more restrictive must apply.

Chap. 3 in the building code when using 50 people to create an assembly is about exiting issues; Art. 518 when dealing with electrical issues does not put a restriction on electrical items until a load of 100 is reached. The electrical code does not deal with exiting.

As is often said - ask the AHJ - in my part of the world I have not met an AHJ who applies Art. 518 with an occupant load of 50.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I disagree - these 'other' codes speak directly to electrical issues, so when they 'conflict' with the electrical code it is about electrical issues so the more restrictive must apply.

Chap. 3 in the building code when using 50 people to create an assembly is about exiting issues; Art. 518 when dealing with electrical issues does not put a restriction on electrical items until a load of 100 is reached. The electrical code does not deal with exiting.

As is often said - ask the AHJ - in my part of the world I have not met an AHJ who applies Art. 518 with an occupant load of 50.

Well that would be a great argument except that "your part of the world" is the San Francisco bay area and they do a lot of things up there that the rest of the world doesn't understand.:roll:

 

[RICK NAPIER]

I do believe codes do vary on certain issues and in NJ the state bylaws say the more restrictive code applies. But in this case article 518 is addressing issues not addressed in the building code so no conflict exists.

 

[kwired]

There are no Ch 3 wiring methods that are specifically prohibited to be used in commercial kitchens. There may be conditions in the kitchen that disallow certain methods to be used such as the mentioned places of assembly, or type of construction. A wet location would exclude some wiring methods also, or change types of fittings or other accssories.

If you have a place of assembly, the type of construction likely coexists that would prohibit NM cable or even RNC.