Insulated Ground and 680.21(4)

[Strahan]

Preparing to do a pool installation and I want to be clear on the requirements for an insulated egc. I will be coming out of a subpanel located in the garage (accessory building). There will be a run in the garage of about 25'. At the end of this run I'm planning on installing a J-box and from here running non-metallic rigid underground to the pool motor. I know I'm required to run an insulated EGC in the raceway to the motor in addition to the ground located in the UF.

My question: from the J-Box located in the garage back to the subpanel is the bare EGC located in the 12-2romex permitted by 680.21(4) or do I need to continue the run of the 12awg insulated ground? I feel the bare egc in the romex is fine. Your thoughts?

 

[guschash]

I agree with you. 680.21(4) reads "shall be enclosed within the outer shealth of the cable assembly".

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I also agree but why are you running UF in PVC?

 

[hurk27]

I confuse a little, as to me 680.21(A)(4) is only for the wiring on the inside of dwellings and accessory buildings, not the wiring that is outside even if it is run in the PVC it still has to meet the requirments of 680.21(A)(1)?

Now if you know the pump will be a double insulated pump, you can use 680.21(B) but it still re1quires us to follow 680.21(A) requirments for the branch circuit wiring?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I confuse a little, as to me 680.21(A)(4) is only for the wiring on the inside of dwellings and accessory buildings, not the wiring that is outside even if it is run in the PVC it still has to meet the requirments of 680.21(A)(1)?

Now if you know the pump will be a double insulated pump, you can use 680.21(B) but it still re1quires us to follow 680.21(A) requirments for the branch circuit wiring?

I think he is running uf in the pvc and adding another insulated ground. :?

 

[hurk27]

I think he is running uf in the pvc and adding another insulated ground. :?

I think I need to read better as now I see that is what he ment,:ashamed:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I think I need to read better as now I see that is what he ment,:ashamed:

After you learn to read better then work on your spelling. :lol:

 

[Strahan]

I also agree but why are you running UF in PVC?

Dennis,

I'm running it in PVC because of future expansion and ease of pulling additional wires in. Homeowner at this time is not sure exactly what he wants to do around the pool such as a pool house. So I want to be able to pull additional wiring if need be. I'm gonna install an accessible J-Box somewhere in the vicinity of pool. Thanks for the replies
Although now I have an additional problem. Panel is an older style Murry. At this time I do not have cat # but do any of you know how easy it is or where to find a double pole GFCI breaker for this box?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Although now I have an additional problem. Panel is an older style Murry. At this time I do not have cat # but do any of you know how easy it is or where to find a double pole GFCI breaker for this box?

If the pool is away from the house then I would consider it a separate structure and must conform to art. 225 section II. I would pvc to a panel box near the pool area and add the GFCI breakers at that point.

 

[Pizza]

Why not pull THHN through the conduit?

 

[Strahan]

If the pool is away from the house then I would consider it a separate structure and must conform to art. 225 section II. I would pvc to a panel box near the pool area and add the GFCI breakers at that point.

Doesn't that only apply to buildings and structures? Is a pool considered under this section? Homeowner is not sure about a pool house I'm just making my life easier if later he decides on one. Atleast for the rest of this summer there will not be one.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Doesn't that only apply to buildings and structures? Is a pool considered under this section? Homeowner is not sure about a pool house I'm just making my life easier if later he decides on one. Atleast for the rest of this summer there will not be one.

Many would see this as a separate structure/ Just run a 1" pvc and pull what you need and let someone else worry about it. The reason I say to do it now because it will be money in your pocket.

Now with the murray panel you may be able to get a gfci for it-- I don't know as I never used them or seen many of them. Many manufacturers make breakers that are listed for other panels.