Required Floor Receptacle

[AK GUY]

:lol:Our senior Inspector is questioning my requiring a customer to install floor Receptacles along a 18' loft with an open picket railing over loooking the living space below. He does agree that if it were stick framed it would require a receptacles but since there is no wall there no receptacles are required. Help me straighten him out.

 

[sameguy]

With out looking needs openings, could be on the out side edge.

 

[volt101]

210.52(A)(2)(3)

The space afforded by fixed room dividers, such as freestanding bar-type counters or railings

Railings are including in the term "wall space"

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I agree but Charlie has always argued that there is no room on the other side so it is not a divider. IMO, the intent of the code is to require one.

 

[George Stolz]

Are lofts covered in 210.52(A)?

 

[qcroanoke]

Are lofts covered in 210.52(A)?

"or similar room or area of dwelling units."
IMO a loft may not be a similar room but it is an area of a dwelling unit.

 

[volt101]

So if I jump over the railing I will end up in the proverbial black hole or will I be on the floor in the living room below?

 

[qcroanoke]

So if I jump over the railing I will end up in the proverbial black hole or will I be on the floor in the living room below?

Either way you probably will end up in pain!

 

[sameguy]

On raised ranch or split levels you could have an open wall (railing) at the stair, would you need openings?
Yes.

 

[charlie b]

I agree but Charlie has always argued that there is no room on the other side so it is not a divider.

And I am sticking with that viewpoint.

IMO, the intent of the code is to require one.

IMO, it does not. If the owner wants to put an easy chair and a floor lamp by the railing, it would certainly be helpful to have a floor receptacle in the area. But that goes beyond code minimums, and into the realm of good design practice.

 

[John120/240]

Had a similar floor plan & always put one there on roughin. Now if you forgot

to wire for one & you are at trim stage well good luck.

 

[AK GUY]

Someone is splitting hairs here, the rail is creating a wall space and there for is required to have receptacles reguardless what is on the other side. Thank you all for your wonderfull input.

 

[pfalcon]

So if I jump over the railing I will end up in the proverbial black hole or will I be on the floor in the living room below?

Either way you probably will end up in pain!

Now we know why your picture is a smilie eating popcorn.
You're waiting to see him jump!

Someone is splitting hairs here, the rail is creating a wall space and there for is required to have receptacles reguardless what is on the other side. Thank you all for your wonderfull input.

Ah, but splitting hairs is the core of legalism.

So saying:

The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as free-standing bar-type counters or railings.

"free-standing" appears to modify both counters and railings.
What does it mean for a rail to be free-standing?
Does this mean you can walk around on both sides without dropping 10' into the room below?

On Charlie's room divider issue I tend to agree. The railing is a safety device in a room, not a divider. The whole point of knocking down that stick wall for a railing is to join the areas into one living space.

IMHO of course.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It makes absolutely no sense to require a receptacle if the railing was a 3' high wall and then say the code does not require it for a railing. I know in NC you would fail if you did not have one.

I am assuming it is a room not walkway or hall.

 

[charlie b]

Someone is splitting hairs here, the rail is creating a wall space. . . .

The whole point here is that that is not an obvious fact, nor is it universally accepted as representing truth. The NEC does explain what it means by "wall space," and I believe this installation does not fall within that description. It simply is not a room divider.

 

[jwelectric]

Our senior Inspector is questioning my requiring a customer to install floor Receptacles along a 18' loft with an open picket railing over loooking the living space below. He does agree that if it were stick framed it would require a receptacles but since there is no wall there no receptacles are required. Help me straighten him out.

I agree with you. The railing is a separation of the loft and the space below. The space below spans from one wall to the other from the floor to the ceiling. The fact that the loft has a finish floor that is higher than the floor below does not mean that the rail does not divide the two.

 

[sameguy]

If it was made of glass then what?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If it was made of glass then what?

You put it in the floor as you would with open rails.

 

[sameguy]

You put it in the floor as you would with open rails.

You are right again!

 

[volt101]

So a game room with four sides established with iron railings and spiral staircase,with more iron guard rails, cut up into the center, does not require any receptacles? Where would I plug in my computer to get on Holt's Code Forum?