Required Floor Receptacle

[Sierrasparky]

I believe this installation does not fall within that description. It simply is not a room divider.

It's not a divider? what is then

 

[hillbilly1]

I had one inspector require one on a "bridge" between two loft areas, railing on both sides, exposed beams on bottom with flooring boards also serving as finished "ceiling" on bottom. Cut-in box looked real nice from underneath! He said someone may want to put Christmas lights on the rails!

 

[John120/240]

We cannot be expected to place a recptacle where "someone may want to put

christmas lights on the rails " If it is just a bridge between two lofts would it be

practicle to place a table with a lamp on the bridge. In my experience I would

say no to a recptacle on the bridge.

 

[kwired]

If it was made of glass then what?

Attach wiremold and outlets to glass and see how happy homeowner is with that:happyyes:

We cannot be expected to place a recptacle where "someone may want to put

christmas lights on the rails " If it is just a bridge between two lofts would it be

practicle to place a table with a lamp on the bridge. In my experience I would

say no to a recptacle on the bridge.

Bridge between two lofts may be a little more analoguos to a hallway.

 

[pfalcon]

So a game room with four sides established with iron railings and spiral staircase,with more iron guard rails, cut up into the center, does not require any receptacles? Where would I plug in my computer to get on Holt's Code Forum?

It's not a divider? what is then

What do you call the railings that surround a raised platform? Safety railings of course. We don't call the rails on a lift room dividers. Why would we change the name just because the wheels fell off?

Good design would call for receptacles somewhere on the platform but I'd argue that on or at the railings is not always the best idea and in some cases probably a very bad idea. The designer should provide the locations at that point based on the proposed usage. Say, wired to the floor under the conference table.

Or we could just let people trip over those floor connections and tumble over the rail.

 

[pfalcon]

It makes absolutely no sense to require a receptacle if the railing was a 3' high wall and then say the code does not require it for a railing. I know in NC you would fail if you did not have one.

I am assuming it is a room not walkway or hall.

I would argue that 3' wall is still just a glorified safety railing. I would also argue that it makes a great place to put receptacles.

 

[sameguy]

Attach wiremold and outlets to glass and see how happy homeowner is with that:happyyes:



Bridge between two lofts may be a little more analoguos to a hallway.

How about floor plugs?

 

[hillbilly1]

We cannot be expected to place a recptacle where "someone may want to put

christmas lights on the rails " If it is just a bridge between two lofts would it be

practicle to place a table with a lamp on the bridge. In my experience I would

say no to a recptacle on the bridge.

I did not do the original wiring, the contractor that did took off back to Florida before he got the final, the realtor hired me to fix the things the inspector turned down so they could close on the house the next day. They didn't want to pick a fight with the inspector to delay the closing.

 

[Chamuit]

I agree with Charlie.

To me the rail does not create wall space but provides a safety barrier. The last loft I wired was an office space and there were ZERO receptacles along the railing (40' or so) and we passed rough and final inspections.

 

[sameguy]

Resi. has code rules, Comm. you follow the print mostly.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I agree with Charlie.

To me the rail does not create wall space but provides a safety barrier. The last loft I wired was an office space and there were ZERO receptacles along the railing (40' or so) and we passed rough and final inspections.

Because it passes inspection does not mean it is to code. I have seen a lot of hack work pass inspection.

 

[qcroanoke]

Because it passes inspection does not mean it is to code.

My thoughts also.

 

[kwired]

Because it passes inspection does not mean it is to code. I have seen a lot of hack work pass inspection.

What happens is guys get used to doing things that are not code compliant and may not even realize it is non compliant. Then along comes another inspector or they go do some work in another jurisdiction and they get asked to change it. Then they think the new inspector is a jerk, when he is only doing what he is supposed to do.

"But we have always done it this way and never had a problem".

 

[Chamuit]

Because it passes inspection does not mean it is to code. I have seen a lot of hack work pass inspection.

To you: a wall. To me: a barrier.

 

[dwellselectric]

:lol:Our senior Inspector is questioning my requiring a customer to install floor Receptacles along a 18' loft with an open picket railing over loooking the living space below. He does agree that if it were stick framed it would require a receptacles but since there is no wall there no receptacles are required. Help me straighten him out.

What if they want to put a chair with a table and lamp there? We are required to install floor outlets on lofts around here.

 

[Hendrix]

What if they want to put a chair with a table and lamp there? We are required to install floor outlets on lofts around here.

Kerosene lamps are nice :lol:

 

[pfalcon]

What if they want to put a chair with a table and lamp there? We are required to install floor outlets on lofts around here.

If we have to place outlets wherever someone might want to put a table and lamp then I don't think we're gonna sell many more houses. How do you know they aren't Mary Poppins fans? They might want them installed on the ceiling!

Fanciful I know, but we don't install them everywhere someone might want them. As to installing by a loft railing the designer needs to look at the situation and decide if adding those outlets will help sell the house. That's probably in part driven by how large the loft area happens to be.

 

[dwellselectric]

If we have to place outlets wherever someone might want to put a table and lamp then I don't think we're gonna sell many more houses. How do you know they aren't Mary Poppins fans? They might want them installed on the ceiling!

Fanciful I know, but we don't install them everywhere someone might want them. As to installing by a loft railing the designer needs to look at the situation and decide if adding those outlets will help sell the house. That's probably in part driven by how large the loft area happens to be.

If the inspector is considering the railing as wall space than it is needed and no longer just a want. Like I said around here the inspector consideres that wall space and requires a floor outlet

 

[iwire]

I agree but Charlie has always argued that there is no room on the other side so it is not a divider.

And I am sticking with that viewpoint.

And I am sticking with it is a divider to the NEC even if it is not one to Charlie.

IMO, the intent of the code is to require one.

I agree.

IMO, it does not. If the owner wants to put an easy chair and a floor lamp by the railing, it would certainly be helpful to have a floor receptacle in the area.

I do not understand this argument at all, the same thing could be said of any required receptacle in any location.

 

[pfalcon]

And I am sticking with that viewpoint. IMO, it does not. If the owner wants to put an easy chair and a floor lamp by the railing, it would certainly be helpful to have a floor receptacle in the area. But that goes beyond code minimums, and into the realm of good design practice.

I do not understand this argument at all, the same thing could be said of any required receptacle in any location.

Purpose of required outlets: Prevent fires by providing outlets where most likely used so people don't string long cords.
* example: countertop outlets are 4' apart versus wall outlets that are 12' apart.

Balance: Burden of installation versus the Likelihood of use.
* example: excluding sliding panels

Good design practice would place outlets along a loft that was wide enough to accomodate tables and chairs. Not all lofts do. Some are barely more than the space a staircase landing would provide. For those a floor receptacle would actually create a trip hazard that no one would ever use as an outlet. Minimum requirements would say no outlet required. Judgement should be in the hands of the designer according to the designed use of the area.