210.52(B)(2) Wrinkle

[George Stolz]

So, try this one on.

Let's say I have a SABC supplying a pair of receptacles in an island. What would you say if someone put in an SSU with a 15A fuse, and supplied a receptacle under the sink with a chunk of 14-2 for a disposal on the load side of those receptacles?

I promised a coworker I'd get some input on this - I think he's got an interesting angle on this.

 

[infinity]

So you want to tap the 20 amp SABC and feed a 15 amp OCPD (fuse). So the question is can you tap a 20 amp SABC?

 

[al hildenbrand]

So you want to tap the 20 amp SABC and feed a 15 amp OCPD (fuse). So the question is can you tap a 20 amp SABC?

That sounds like the way I read it.

 

[rcarroll]

I have to say no go. It doesn't meet any exception allowed in 210.52 (B)(1) or (2).
If I'm wrong, I'll buy you a beer!

 

[George Stolz]

There is no tap, to be clear. 12 AWG on the line side of the SSU, 14 AWG after the SSU.

 

[jumper]

George, where do you come up with stuff? Troublemaker.....

 

[Electrician4life]

Could it be covered by the ex.#2 in 210.52(B)(2)? .....Receptacles installed to provide power for supplemental equipment and lighting on gas-fired ranges, ovens, or counter-mounted cooking units. Or am I reading it wrong and the supplemental equipment they are referring to is just for the ranges, ovens and counter-mounted cooking units?

 

[Smart $]

I have to say no go. It doesn't meet any exception allowed in 210.52 (B)(1) or (2).
If I'm wrong, I'll buy you a beer!

Why does it have to meet either exception? First tell me why it is non-compliant with the general requirement.

I'm inclined to say it's compliant...

 

[infinity]

The words No other outlets seems to prohibit this installation.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Maybe I am blind but I have no idea why one thinks it is okay. A disposal under the sink is another outlet. I don't see how the fuse comes into play. Are you thinking this is illegal if it were #12 wire but since there is a fuse it is okay? What am I missing- this is a clear cut violation in my eyes.

 

[david luchini]

I agree with rcarroll...210.52(B)(1) says in a kitchen...the SABCs shall supply all the wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A) and all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration.

210.52(B)(2) says the SABCs shall have no other outlets. The disposal is not one of the outlets specified in 210.52(B)(1) so it cannot be connected to the SABC per 210.52(B)(2) (or its exceptions.)

The only wrinkle I could think of is saying that the 15A fuse creates a "new" branch circuit, so the disposal is not on the SABC. However, I think the 15A fuse falls under "supplementary" overcurrent protection, not branch overcurrent protection.

(Also, if the 15A fuse wasn't "supplementary," by the definition of "feeder" the SABC would then be a feeder. That's a real brain twister.)

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The only wrinkle I could think of is saying that the 15A fuse creates a "new" branch circuit, so the disposal is not on the SABC. However, I think the 15A fuse falls under "supplementary" overcurrent protection, not branch overcurrent protection.

(Also, if the 15A fuse wasn't "supplementary," by the definition of "feeder" the SABC would then be a feeder. That's a real brain twister.)

That is exactly what I was about to write that the sabc is now a feeder and would not be compliant

 

[Little Bill]

What is a SSU?

George, you really need to give your brain a rest.:lol:

 

[Smart $]

The words No other outlets seems to prohibit this installation.

How do you qualify a receptacle outlet [on a non-lighting, non-dedicated circuit] in a kitchen as an "other outlet"?

For the sake of discussion, I'm considering the "SSU" as a supplementary ocpd.

 

[Finite10]

I'm a "no" too. It's not an outlet for a clock - nor for a gas range timer etc. It's an outlet for a small peice of equipment and this non-excepted 'other outlet' is expressly non-compliant.

imho

 

[Smart $]

... It's not an outlet for a clock - nor for a gas range timer etc. It's an outlet for a small peice of equipment...

...and so are the other outlets on the SABC's.

Is a disposal an appliance?

Is it a small appliance?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

...and so are the other outlets on the SABC's.

Is a disposal an appliance?

Is it a small appliance?

It has nothing to do with a disposal being a small appliance or not. If I put a toaster in my bedroom I cannot extend the kitchen SABC to my bedroom and be compliant.

 

[Finite10]

...and so are the other outlets on the SABC's.

Is a disposal an appliance?

Is it a small appliance?

Disposal is fixed. Anyway, not one of the outlets specified, so it's an 'other outlet' - which is not allowed.

imho

 

[George Stolz]

The only wrinkle I could think of is saying that the 15A fuse creates a "new" branch circuit, so the disposal is not on the SABC. However, I think the 15A fuse falls under "supplementary" overcurrent protection, not branch overcurrent protection.

(Also, if the 15A fuse wasn't "supplementary," by the definition of "feeder" the SABC would then be a feeder. That's a real brain twister.)

Bingo. That's what twisted my brain at the idea.

 

[John120/240]

George, Little Bill & I are curious what is a "SSU" . Thank You John