if i ever do this again, will one of you just *slap* me? (one man band rant)

[Fulthrotl]

***** Beginning of Rant *****

in short, residential work.
yeah, it's done right. yeah, i got paid.

the price was within $25 of what i said it would cost before we started.

apparently, the words "well, do the best you can" is code for
"cut your price in half". i didn't get the memo.

figured not charging them for the two wasted trips across town
was my "doing the best i could".

when he asked me what my hourly rate i was charging him was,
and was told $75, the same as it's been for the last 2 years, i
was told that was an awful lot of money to charge for the little
bit that i did. the irony is that i told him it was half a days work,
plus material. flat rate.

i'm not telling anyone any more what my hourly rate is. it's none
of their business. you want (fill in the blank) done? that's $873,
payable on completion. i accept cash, check, and visa.

took the check, hammered it at the bank it was drawn on, put
money in overpaid pocket. walked away, disgusted.

next time, when i forget this, will one of you just slap me?

***** End of Rant *****

 

[MJW]

Well if nothing else you have provided a great service to the rest of us. Every time I think about doing a job t and m because I'm too lazy to spend a few minutes bidding it I think of stories like this. The same guy probably has no problem putting $100 in gas in his suv every three days but thinks your van runs on air.

 

[Cow]

I don't think it's a t&m problem, but a residential problem. I'm just thankful we don't hardly do any residential, some homeowners are crazy! All our regular industrial/ag/commercial customers usually have some idea what it takes to do a job. But, not homeowners! They want us to make magic happen! For cheap!

 

[kennydmeek]

I charge $155hr and have no problem justifying that to my customers. After expenses it works out to around $80k yr salary and 20% profit margin for the business and I don't have to pay health care or employees.(yet) I'm busy enough that if anybody doesn't like it they're welcome to shop.

go to www.barebonesbiz.com. Ellen will set you straight with your numbers!

 

[Fulthrotl]

I charge $155hr and have no problem justifying that to my customers. After expenses it works out to around $80k yr salary and 20% profit margin for the business and I don't have to pay health care or employees.(yet) I'm busy enough that if anybody doesn't like it they're welcome to shop.

go to www.barebonesbiz.com. Ellen will set you straight with your numbers!

subscribed. thanks.

 

[480sparky]

I don't think it's a t&m problem, but a residential problem............

It's not a residential problem. It's an Our Economy is in the Toilet problem, coupled with the Thousands of Out-Of-Work Yet Unlicensed Electricians Advertising Cheap Rates on Craigslist conundrum and the customers' They're Starving so They're Happy to Work for Dog Food attitude.

Every person who pretends they're starting a business and only fool themselves into thinking that $5/hour more than what they were getting paid 6 months ago is enough to operate a legitimate business is simply dragging the entire industry down the drain with them. They snag a few jobs, discover they still aren't paying the bills, and end up looking for a real job somewhere else.

All they truly accomplish is conditioning the general public that, regardless of our training, experience and expertise, we're only worth $20 an hour.

 

[kennydmeek]

"Where Did the Money Go" and "How Much Should I Charge" are excellent also....both by Ellen..

I first learned about her over in Electrician Talk...

 

[JWCELECTRIC]

I guess homeowners don't think 2K a month for health Ins is expensive.

 

[Fulthrotl]

"Where Did the Money Go" and "How Much Should I Charge" are excellent also....both by Ellen..

I first learned about her over in Electrician Talk...

well, the weekend biz plan, how much should i charge, and where did the money go are all on my ipad...

and the weekend biz plan starts tomorrow morning, on time. what better weekend than labor day?

the lady says she almost bankrupted her husbands plumbing company until she learned how to
build it, then took it from zero to forty million in sales in 2 years.

ok. i'm in. what's the worst that could happen? it doesn't work, and i bought three e books.
what's the best that could happen? it works.

i'll let ya know how it goes... ;-)

 

[kennydmeek]

well, the weekend biz plan, how much should i charge, and where did the money go are all on my ipad...

and the weekend biz plan starts tomorrow morning, on time. what better weekend than labor day?

the lady says she almost bankrupted her husbands plumbing company until she learned how to
build it, then took it from zero to forty million in sales in 2 years.

ok. i'm in. what's the worst that could happen? it doesn't work, and i bought three e books.
what's the best that could happen? it works.

i'll let ya know how it goes... ;-)

She's looking for ya!

Between the books and conversation where she figuratively told me to "grow a pair.."

Increased my income considerably!

 

[bullheimer]

you didnt say how much you got paid so it's hard to see what you are complaining about.

i tell people it's $75/hr with a $75 minimum. sometimes people hang up but rarely and there is never an issue even when all i have to do is flip a breaker or gfi button.

you're problem, using my CRYSTAL BALL, is that you were dealing with an old person.

not only do i NOT give senior discounts for this reason, but i have seriously considered giving them a SENIOR SURCHARGE! nothing worse than some old SOB thinking about how the most money he ever made in his life was $20. it AINT 1955 anymore grampa!!! (ps year i was born). Not to mention (but i am) that they always stand behind you when you are working and 9 times outta ten you have to put up with their stupid pets or them smoking in your face. ,who needs it!

giving them a flat rate is ALWAYS best because you will make alot more money. on my bids like that i sometimes say that my estimate is based on $75/hr. i also got/get calls for Service (trouble shooting) where i quote the hourly, then i get there and they want a circuit extention or new circuit. i immediately tell them that my hourly rate only applies to service work on existing systems, and that if they want new construction i will bid it out. in the last case i told them a new outlet up a wall for a tv was $150 by itself. he immediately said ok. well one thing ran into another train wreck, and it took three hours. so i charged him the $75/hr which made the outlet cost $225. i just put the number of hours and he paid no questions asked. and he was older than dirt as well.


but the other side of the story is what you ran into. i had an old fossel call me to fix his table saw. i went to the store and bought him a new switch after i took the motor all out and then reinstalled everything. i had told this bunghole that i charge $75/hr on the phone. well he must not have had his hearing aid in or something. when i was done he say's here is something just for you and hands me a twenty. i am thinking that it was for me to keep off the books, ie a tip. well i sent him a bill for the hour and the switch and never heard from him again, even after a phone call. hopefully he fell on the saw and cut his chest cavity open. i hate old people. (again, coming from a 55yr old).

 

[growler]

when i was done he say's here is something just for you and hands me a twenty. i am thinking that it was for me to keep off the books, ie a tip. well i sent him a bill for the hour and the switch and never heard from him again, even after a phone call. hopefully he fell on the saw and cut his chest cavity open. i hate old people. (again, coming from a 55yr old).

I think I know why you hate old people. They are smarter than you are.

When any sort of payment for a job is offered and accepted that's the end of it. When he offered the $20 and you accepted that was it, you were paid.

Allways submit a bill for the full amount and accept nothing less. Unless they have an account set up you collect before you leave the job.

I have never had any trouble with old people I have even had them offer to pay when I told them they didn't owe me anything.

 

[stevenje]

It isn't the old ones I worry about. It's the over stretched yuppie couple with the mansion and the two new SUV's in the garage, with the big boat parked on the side of the house.

 

[readydave8]

It's not a residential problem. It's an Our Economy is in the Toilet problem, coupled with the Thousands of Out-Of-Work Yet Unlicensed Electricians Advertising Cheap Rates on Craigslist conundrum and the customers' They're Starving so They're Happy to Work for Dog Food attitude.

Every person who pretends they're starting a business and only fool themselves into thinking that $5/hour more than what they were getting paid 6 months ago is enough to operate a legitimate business is simply dragging the entire industry down the drain with them. They snag a few jobs, discover they still aren't paying the bills, and end up looking for a real job somewhere else.

All they truly accomplish is conditioning the general public that, regardless of our training, experience and expertise, we're only worth $20 an hour.

well of course your're right, I might only add that when the economy was good there seemed to be plenty of guys pretending to start a business and charge $5/hour more than they had been making. Perhaps not as many as there are now? Or were we so swamped with work that we didn't notice as much?

 

[readydave8]

you didnt say how much you got paid so it's hard to see what you are complaining about.

i tell people it's $75/hr with a $75 minimum. sometimes people hang up but rarely and there is never an issue even when all i have to do is flip a breaker or gfi button.

you're problem, using my CRYSTAL BALL, is that you were dealing with an old person.

not only do i NOT give senior discounts for this reason, but i have seriously considered giving them a SENIOR SURCHARGE! nothing worse than some old SOB thinking about how the most money he ever made in his life was $20. it AINT 1955 anymore grampa!!! (ps year i was born). Not to mention (but i am) that they always stand behind you when you are working and 9 times outta ten you have to put up with their stupid pets or them smoking in your face. ,who needs it!

giving them a flat rate is ALWAYS best because you will make alot more money. on my bids like that i sometimes say that my estimate is based on $75/hr. i also got/get calls for Service (trouble shooting) where i quote the hourly, then i get there and they want a circuit extention or new circuit. i immediately tell them that my hourly rate only applies to service work on existing systems, and that if they want new construction i will bid it out. in the last case i told them a new outlet up a wall for a tv was $150 by itself. he immediately said ok. well one thing ran into another train wreck, and it took three hours. so i charged him the $75/hr which made the outlet cost $225. i just put the number of hours and he paid no questions asked. and he was older than dirt as well.


but the other side of the story is what you ran into. i had an old fossel call me to fix his table saw. i went to the store and bought him a new switch after i took the motor all out and then reinstalled everything. i had told this bunghole that i charge $75/hr on the phone. well he must not have had his hearing aid in or something. when i was done he say's here is something just for you and hands me a twenty. i am thinking that it was for me to keep off the books, ie a tip. well i sent him a bill for the hour and the switch and never heard from him again, even after a phone call. hopefully he fell on the saw and cut his chest cavity open. i hate old people. (again, coming from a 55yr old).

I improved collection statistics a few years ago when I started billing/getting paid for small jobs before I left rather than sending a bill later, I'm sure you already thought about that and had a reason for not billing on the spot, however it works, I don't know why.

 

[jumper]

It isn't the old ones I worry about. It's the over stretched yuppie couple with the mansion and the two new SUV's in the garage, with the big boat parked on the side of the house.

Gotta say: Amen brother. Usually they are one step from bankruptcy.

 

[Fulthrotl]

you didnt say how much you got paid so it's hard to see what you are complaining about.

you're problem, using my CRYSTAL BALL, is that you were dealing with an old person.

but the other side of the story is what you ran into. i had an old fossel call me to fix his table saw. i went to the store and bought him a new switch after i took the motor all out and then reinstalled everything. i had told this bunghole that i charge $75/hr on the phone. well he must not have had his hearing aid in or something. when i was done he say's here is something just for you and hands me a twenty. i am thinking that it was for me to keep off the books, ie a tip. well i sent him a bill for the hour and the switch and never heard from him again, even after a phone call. hopefully he fell on the saw and cut his chest cavity open. i hate old people. (again, coming from a 55yr old).

i suspect your crystal ball might work better if it was in the light,
instead of where the sun doesn't shine.
it would be much easier to see.

he is six years younger than you are.

however your deep fear of aging and death will probably cause
you increasing difficulty as you react with extreme hatred toward
everything you fear.... projecting your anger out as a defense
really doesn't work well.

this month, i am 56 years old. if i had to live with the fear you
carry around, i'd kill myself in the morning.

but thanks for contributing...... i think.

 

[Sparky555]

To the OP...the mistake was accepting the $20 and billing. If someone tried to hand me a $20 I'd point out that the invoice is $200, or whatever, and is due now. The experience reminds me of a time when you could work for someone and be offered dinner as payment.

As to the age of customers, the older the better. They are more likely to have had bad contractor experiences and will appreciate good service.

 

[kwired]

I really don't see age being much of a factor. I know of older people that are more willing to pay more than you are asking for sometimes, and others that would still complain about the most minor details, even if you did your work for free. The latter were that way when they were younger also.

 

[Fulthrotl]

ok. i'm in. what's the worst that could happen? it doesn't work, and i bought three e books.
what's the best that could happen? it works.

i'll let ya know how it goes... ;-)

well, saturday is all done... i have all the first days stuff done, and a drastic
reappraisal, and a clear understanding of what i need to be charging.

that $75 an hour i was charging....

it's now $114 per hour for bidding purposes, and that is shaved to the bone.
calif. is in pretty crummy shape for construction....
i'll work on that number tomorrow some more.... my markup on material
needs tuning.

we shall see what tomorrow brings.