Required Floor Receptacle

[jwelectric]

Again my question is if a peninsular or island that is more than six feet long and divides a kitchen into two parts then this would be similar to a freestanding bar or railing, would it require a receptacle to serve the countertop and another to serve the wall space?

I have no problem with the phrase "such as." But the "such as items" divide a room into two separate areas. When you separate one room from another room, that particular article does not come into play.

The fact that one (the loft) is on a separate level than the room below constitutes wall space be it a safety railing or a solid sheet rocked wall. If a railing is chosen then there is no wall to install the device in so a floor receptacle is the answer.

Using the train of thought that it must divide one room into two areas one could build a house with freestanding bars to a height just below the ceiling and only have receptacles on the two outside walls. Would this fulfill the intent of the code?

 

[charlie b]

The fact that one (the loft) is on a separate level than the room below constitutes wall space . . . .

That is merely an opinion, and you are welcome to it. But my opinion is that the NEC language, as written, does not call the railing in question a "wall space," for the purposes of deciding where receptacles are required. So feel free to add floor receptacles when you build that house, but do not fault my design drawings when such receptacles are (intentionally) omitted.

Here's a thought. So OK we can't install a receptacle on the railing itself. So someone suggest putting one on the floor. OK. So I will put one on the floor BEHIND the railing (i.e., on the floor level below). There you go. You get your floor receptacle. Tell me where in the code it says which side of the wall the floor receptacle must go on! :lol: After all, if a railing is used to divide a room into two separate areas, a floor receptacle on either side can be used for a floor lamp (or other item) located on the other side. Nothing in the book says a portable cord is not allowed to be run through the space between the spindles of a railing.

 

[jwelectric]

Charlie that was a good one, we laughed until our bellies hurt.
The one question that we all ask is; how could the floor receptacle in the floor below serve the loft?


Should you leave it off your drawing I would send in a RFI to see why you failed to include it on your drawing.

 

[Little Bill]

Charlie that was a good one, we laughed until our bellies hurt.
The one question that we all ask is; how could the floor receptacle in the floor below serve the loft?

Why by an extension cord of course. Instead of the tripping hazard being in the loft we just moved it downstairs.

 

[charlie b]

Charlie that was a good one, we laughed until our bellies hurt.

Happy to be of service.

The one question that we all ask is; how could the floor receptacle in the floor below serve the loft?

Who said anything about serving? The code does not. All it says is that if you have a wall space (and we still disagree on this point), then there must be a receptacle within six feet, as measured HORIZONTALLY along the floor line. (NOTE: OK, I know I would have to walk away from this suggestion, should anyone throw ?Charlie?s Rule? onto the table, particularly in view of the ?within 18 inches of the wall? requirement. But it was fun, while it lasted. )

Should you leave it off your drawing I would send in a RFI to see why you failed to include it on your drawing.

My reply to the RFI would be that the code does not require it, but that I would be happy to add one for an additional engineering fee. :angel:

 

[ActionDave]

After reading the exchanges between Mike, pfalcon and Charlie I am beginning to doubt the wording on my own Birth Certificate.

 

[iwire]

After reading the exchanges between Mike, pfalcon and Charlie I am beginning to doubt the wording on my own Birth Certificate.

 

[jumper]

After reading the exchanges between Mike, pfalcon and Charlie I am beginning to doubt the wording on my own Birth Certificate.

I know I doubt parts of my birth certificate.

My father was a part time warehouse clerk at a supply house and he listed himself as an EC.:thumbsdown:

 

[charlie b]

. . . I am beginning to doubt the wording on my own Birth Certificate.

My family had been celebrating my birthday one day earlier than the date that showed up on my birth certificate, and I was ten years old before anyone noticed the discrepancy. Perhaps that was what laid the foundation for "Charlie's Rule."

 

[jumper]

My family had been celebrating my birthday one day earlier than the date that showed up on my birth certificate, and I was ten years old before anyone noticed the discrepancy. Perhaps that was what laid the foundation for "Charlie's Rule."

I was 16 and getting a learners permit to drive when I first saw my birth certificate. Seems no one noticed that I have an accent in my name and my parents do not remember why they put it there.

Back to the subject: I read your proposal on this subject and the panel statement angel said a receptacle is required.

 

[charlie b]

I read your proposal on this subject and the panel statement said a receptacle is required.

Yea, I remember that. The primary purpose of that proposal was to induce the code makers to throw away that ridiculous word, ?afforded.? I gave them several ways to rephrase the requirement, making it as clear as I could that that word did not, could not mean anything whatsoever, in the context they have tried to use it. I still believe that if they believe this situation requires receptacles, then they are going to have to fix the wording. As written, the code does not require receptacles.

 

[jumper]

Yea, I remember that. The primary purpose of that proposal was to induce the code makers to throw away that ridiculous word, ?afforded.? I gave them several ways to rephrase the requirement, making it as clear as I could that that word did not, could not mean anything whatsoever, in the context they have tried to use it. I still believe that if they believe this situation requires receptacles, then they are going to have to fix the wording. As written, the code does not require receptacles.

Yep, as written it is clear as mud as they say. CMPs are weird.The panel statements say what they want, but they do not write the code to specifically say it. I dunno, I just muddle my way through.