Welder Grounding

[kwired]

In addition to keeping the work lead close to the work, you must also provide a Ground Clamp from the work to the additional grounding busbar that is provided part of the ANSI requirment.

So if you are welding on a vehicle you must have a bonding jumper from the vehicle to a buildings metal frame, or some other electrode if no metal building frame?

I don't see the point, and can see it potentially causing more trouble than it resolves. The only place the welder current is trying to flow is between the work lead and electrode lead. Anything that becomes a path between those two will carry at least some of the welding current.

 

[Eng]

So if you are welding on a vehicle you must have a bonding jumper from the vehicle to a buildings metal frame, or some other electrode if no metal building frame?

I don't see the point, and can see it potentially causing more trouble than it resolves. The only place the welder current is trying to flow is between the work lead and electrode lead. Anything that becomes a path between those two will carry at least some of the welding current.

i believe there is a potential for static build-up that will cause possible damage to the electronics and/or a possible explosion to flammable gases or liquids.

This was requested by the City's welding guru and is also listed in ANSI as a requirement. I do not know all of the ins and outs as to why or how this would work.

 

[hurk27]

i believe there is a potential for static build-up that will cause possible damage to the electronics and/or a possible explosion to flammable gases or liquids.

This was requested by the City's welding guru and is also listed in ANSI as a requirement. I do not know all of the ins and outs as to why or how this would work.

I have never heard of static as a reason to bond the output of short runs of conductors, long runs maybe, the problem is if you were to measure between the output leads of a welder and Earth you would not show any voltage (a hi impedance meter such as a DVM might but any resistance would drain it off) without any voltage potential between the welder leads and earth you have no shock hazard to a welder (the person) from the work and earth, when you bond the work lead you have now created a path that introduces a shock hazard to the welder and or helper between the work and earth or anything that is bonded to earth such as building steel, isolation can go along way to not providing a path for shock hazards when properly implemented, we do this in patience care areas via an isolation transformer, LV pool lights are also done through a isolation transformer or power supply for the same reason.
I worked in a very large steel fabrication plant that had hundreds of welders all over the plant, of all kinds, and not one of these was even bonded on the output side, except when as I have said before, when a welder took it upon himself to use the building steel to provide a path for the work lead, which resulted in a bunch of wiring being damaged and a crane being shut down for a few days, welders were taught to inspect their welding leads every day, and to replace any that had exposed conductors, as any contact with these leads and building steel could not only produce extra shock hazards but allow welding current to flow on the building EGC's which can damage the conductors in these conduits.

 

[Eng]

I have never heard of static as a reason to bond the output of short runs of conductors, long runs maybe, the problem is if you were to measure between the output leads of a welder and Earth you would not show any voltage (a hi impedance meter such as a DVM might but any resistance would drain it off) without any voltage potential between the welder leads and earth you have no shock hazard to a welder (the person) from the work and earth, when you bond the work lead you have now created a path that introduces a shock hazard to the welder and or helper between the work and earth or anything that is bonded to earth such as building steel, isolation can go along way to not providing a path for shock hazards when properly implemented, we do this in patience care areas via an isolation transformer, LV pool lights are also done through a isolation transformer or power supply for the same reason.
I worked in a very large steel fabrication plant that had hundreds of welders all over the plant, of all kinds, and not one of these was even bonded on the output side, except when as I have said before, when a welder took it upon himself to use the building steel to provide a path for the work lead, which resulted in a bunch of wiring being damaged and a crane being shut down for a few days, welders were taught to inspect their welding leads every day, and to replace any that had exposed conductors, as any contact with these leads and building steel could not only produce extra shock hazards but allow welding current to flow on the building EGC's which can damage the conductors in these conduits.

As I said. this was requested by the client as is a requirement of ANSI. I ended up providing a bare copper busbar with a bare conductor connecting the copper busbar to the building steel. From here the welders are responsible to connected to it as they see fit.

 

[Joethemechanic]

the more I work around new workers, I find less and less common sense, why? because these new workers in these trades think their world is so protected that they do not have to worry about safety as much as back in the old days.

I blame "nerf balls" for this. I know it sounds crazy, and ok, maybe it wasn't the nerf balls. But I really think young guys need to smash a finger, skin a knuckle, get burned a little, and know what a electrical shock feels like. No pain = no gain

 

[Joethemechanic]

This was requested by the City's welding guru

Most municipal "gurus" are guys who might be skilled at "playing well with others" but they couldn't pass a 6th grade physics exam.

I was the guy who took care of the generators for the police department and the communications system for the City of Philadelphia for a few years. Most of the electrical "gurus" I met couldn't do an ohms law calculation on a simple DC circuit

They are mostly the kind of guy who thinks a glossy trade mag is more informative than "American Electricians" or "Electrical Machines Drives and Power Systems" (I guess it's easier to look at all the color pictures than to have to do math or something)

 

[kwired]

Most municipal "gurus" are guys who might be skilled at "playing well with others" but they couldn't pass a 6th grade physics exam.

I was the guy who took care of the generators for the police department and the communications system for the City of Philadelphia for a few years. Most of the electrical "gurus" I met couldn't do an ohms law calculation on a simple DC circuit

They are mostly the kind of guy who thinks a glossy trade mag is more informative than "American Electricians" or "Electrical Machines Drives and Power Systems" (I guess it's easier to look at all the color pictures than to have to do math or something)

They don't even look at trade mags today, might have to turn pages. U tube is the way to go.

 

[Eng]

I blame "nerf balls" for this. I know it sounds crazy, and ok, maybe it wasn't the nerf balls. But I really think young guys need to smash a finger, skin a knuckle, get burned a little, and know what a electrical shock feels like. No pain = no gain

I really don't know what you are trying to say here. Are you saying that it is not enough to stand over a hole to know that it is dangerous? You think that you actually need to fall into the hole to know that there is a hazard there??


http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/welding-Safety-prevention-scheduled-maintenance/

1. The Power Source and Primary Power Line
Grounding the Equipment
Welders must be concerned at all times about the possibility of electrical shock. Wet working conditions must be avoided, because water is an excellent conductor and electricity will always follow the path of least resistance. Even a person's perspiration can lower the body's resistance to electrical shock. Standing on a dry rubber mat or, when welding outdoors, standing on a dry board is always advisable. Poor connections and bare spots on cables further increase the possibility of electrical shock, and therefore, daily inspection of these items is also recommended.
Aside from these more obvious shock hazards, equipment operators should routinely inspect for proper ground connections. A proper ground connection is always necessary because it provides a safety connection from a welding machine frame to the earth. Connections typically used for grounding an engine-driven welding machine include a cable connected from a ground stud on the welding machine to a metal stake placed in the ground.
The workpiece being welded and the frame or chassis of all electrically powered machines must be connected to a good electrical ground. This can be accomplished by connecting it to a properly grounded building frame or other appropriate ground. Chains, wire ropes, cranes, hoists and elevators must never be used as grounding connectors.
The work lead is not the grounding lead. The work lead connects the work terminal on the power source to the workpiece. A separate lead is required to ground the workpiece or power source.
When arc welding equipment is properly grounded according to the National Electrical Code, and to ANSI Z49.1 "Safety in Welding and Cutting" standards, a voltage may safely exist between the electrode and any conducting object. Examples of conducting objects include buildings, power tools, work benches, welding power source cases and workpieces. Never touch the electrode and any metal object unless the welding power source is off.
When installing a welding system, connect the frames of each unit such as welding power source, control, work table and water circulator to the building ground. Conductors must be adequate to carry ground currents safely. Equipment made electrically hot by stray current may deliver a powerful shock. Never ground to an electrical conduit, or to a pipe carrying any gas or flammable liquid such as oil or fuel.

 

[iwire]

one thing that starts to come up short when we start trying to imply that doing work is safe is common sense. the more I work around new workers, I find less and less common sense, why? because these new workers in these trades think their world is so protected that they do not have to worry about safety as much as back in the old days.

And without a doubt the generation before you felt the same way about your generation.