Calculation Q

[resistance]

Question: If a house (single family Dwell) has three washers in the house: 1. two stackable washer dryer units and one single washer. Would you count this as three laundry circuits, and two dryer circuits? I’m in a debate right now. And believe it or not, responses from here carry weight!!! My thought: I count it as three laundry circuits @ 1500ea, and two dryers @ 5000 or nameplate—depending on the calculation. One person says, we only have to count one washer once, and he argues the dryer should be taken at nameplate. Hun???

 

[Smart $]

Question: If a house (single family Dwell) has three washers in the house: 1. two stackable washer dryer units and one single washer. Would you count this as three laundry circuits, and two dryer circuits? I?m in a debate right now. And believe it or not, responses from here carry weight!!! My thought: I count it as three laundry circuits @ 1500ea, and two dryers @ 5000 or nameplate?depending on the calculation. One person says, we only have to count one washer once, and he argues the dryer should be taken at nameplate. Hun???

For the dryers, its 5000VA or nameplate, whichever is greater, for EACH dryer served.

There is no requirement which says a washer must be served by a laundry circuit. However, each washer is an appliance load. Including these as laundry circuit loads is optional and there is no requirement that all three be on individual [laundry] circuits.

 

[resistance]

For the dryers, its 5000VA or nameplate, whichever is greater, for EACH dryer served.

There is no requirement which says a washer must be served by a laundry circuit. However, each washer is an appliance load. Including these as laundry circuit loads is optional and there is no requirement that all three be on individual [laundry] circuits.

Interesting you say this, as the definition for laundry= is the washing of clothing and liens, the place where that washing is done, and/or that which needs to be, is being, or has been laundered. Laundry can be considered a room or area, as in a home or apartment building, reserved for doing the family wash. With that said, how could you not count it as a laundry circuit, when the space is setup to accept a washing appliance?

 

[Little Bill]

Interesting you say this, as the definition for laundry= is the washing of clothing and liens, the place where that washing is done, and/or that which needs to be, is being, or has been laundered. Laundry can be considered a room or area, as in a home or apartment building, reserved for doing the family wash. With that said, how could you not count it as a laundry circuit, when the space is setup to accept a washing appliance?

I think what Smart was saying is the only NEC requirement is there must be one 20A laundry circuit. It doesn't say what you have to plug into it. You could have a washer in every room if you want but still are only required one 20A laundry circuit. IMO, you would be better off using the optional method of calculating and use the washers as more appliances.

 

[resistance]

I think what Smart was saying is the only NEC requirement is there must be one 20A laundry circuit. It doesn't say what you have to plug into it. You could have a washer in every room if you want but still are only required one 20A laundry circuit. IMO, you would be better off using the optional method of calculating and use the washers as more appliances.

So if you have a laundry space, with a hot and cold water pipe—along with drain dedicated for a washer. You believe only one laundry circuit is required to be counted in a DLC? I’m more on board to believe you would have to count any space that presents the obvious as an additional laundry circuit. Reason: It seems evident that the space will be used for laundry (Laundry defined to include a washer).

 

[ActionDave]

Code only requires one laundry circuit and has nothing to do with the washer. I agree with Smart and Bill.

 

[resistance]

Code only requires one laundry circuit and has nothing to do with the washer. I agree with Smart and Bill.

A laundry room is built to accommodate a washer. My specific point isn’t about the washer, it’s about the space, and the number of spaces. A home with three washers—simply means three laundry (see definition) spaces. To think that I believe a person can’t have more than one washing machine in there home without a dedicated space to operate over one machine is ludicrous!!! The point of the question is to ask: If single family home has more than one laundry space, should you count the additional laundry (see definition/Washer room) room spaces as would the required one?

 

[ActionDave]

Got it and I still agree with Smart and Bill. I would count the extra washers and dryers as appliances and use the demand factors for a load calc.

 

[resistance]

Got it and I still agree with Smart and Bill. I would count the extra washers and dryers as appliances and use the demand factors for a load calc.

Really. Interesting!!! I just got lucky (took me 2 hours) an found a similar situation on a reputable site, and they used a calculation that included a single family dwell with two laundry circuits. They calculated the additional laundry as: 1500(1)+ the required 1(1500). It seems my question may be answered.

 

[ActionDave]

Yes, you can count it that way and opinions will differ. I just know that NEC load calcs are extremely conservative and I will opt for whatever will give me the lowest.

 

[resistance]

To add: even if the washer wasn’t present, you would have to count the load of 1500va for each laundry space. I believe this is so, because it seems to be obvious that the laundry space will house a load (washer). I haven’t seen a laundry room without the proper equipment to attach to a washer.

 

[resistance]

Yes, you can count it that way and opinions will differ. I just know that NEC load calcs are extremely conservative and I will opt for whatever will give me the lowest.

You still get a demand

 

[Smart $]

Interesting you say this, as the definition for laundry= is the washing of clothing and liens, the place where that washing is done, and/or that which needs to be, is being, or has been laundered. Laundry can be considered a room or area, as in a home or apartment building, reserved for doing the family wash. With that said, how could you not count it as a laundry circuit, when the space is setup to accept a washing appliance?

I did not say there was not to be a laundry circuit. I said there is no requirement that a washer be plugged into it. A washer can be plugged into an appliance receptacle outlet that is not the required laundry area receptacle.

III. Required Outlets
210.50 General. ...
...
(C) Appliance Receptacle Outlets. Appliance receptacle outlets installed in a dwelling unit for specific appliances, such as laundry equipment, ...

 

[Dennis Alwon]

IMO, the 3 washers and the dryers need to be calculated as I believe Smart$ was stating. They are an appliance and thus should be figured in the calculation even if they are in the living room. Only one is required but you still need to calculate it. Although not likely, it is possible that at least 2 units will be going together and I can imagine even 3.

 

[Strathead]

So if you have a laundry space, with a hot and cold water pipe?along with drain dedicated for a washer. You believe only one laundry circuit is required to be counted in a DLC? I?m more on board to believe you would have to count any space that presents the obvious as an additional laundry circuit. Reason: It seems evident that the space will be used for laundry (Laundry defined to include a washer).

The code requires 210.52 F at least one receptacle outlet shall be installed for Laundry. And 220.52 (B) a load of not less than 1500 amps shall be included for each 2 wire laundry branch circuit. 210.11 (C) (2) requires at least one additional 20 amp branch circuit shall be provided to supply laundry receptacle outlet(s) No where does it require a laundry circuit for each laundry room. You could have 10 laundry rooms in the house and they could all be fed from the same laundry circuit. You could decide to plug 10 washing machines in to any outlets in the house and for purposes of calculation you would not need to include one additional amp of capacity. I disagree with the other poster saying to treat it as an appliance, becase it is not fastened in to place either. That would be like syaing my wife owns 4 vacuum cleaners, an electric pressure washer and 2 carpet cleaners so I better up the load. Remember that the code is there as a minimum requirement. That requirement is a 1500va load included in the calculation for each dwelling unit and at least one laundry receptacle period. Nothing more nothing less.

So the poster who uses the calculation that gives hime the minimum allowed is the one I am 100% with. Especially since as stated the headroom available from NEC calcs is through the roof anyway.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So we should throw out art. 210.23 (A)(1)

 

[Strathead]

So we should throw out art. 210.23 (A)(1)

If you were asking me, not really. We should just make sure we don't exceed the load. I can plug in 300 washing machines to one 15 amp circuit without exceeding the load. I just can't turn them on.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If you were asking me, not really. We should just make sure we don't exceed the load. I can plug in 300 washing machines to one 15 amp circuit without exceeding the load. I just can't turn them on.

I disagree esp. since the washers would need a water hookup. I am not sure that would not be considered fastened in place but I don't believe it matters esp. since you can't count on all ho to not use it.

 

[Strathead]

I disagree esp. since the washers would need a water hookup. I am not sure that would not be considered fastened in place but I don't believe it matters esp. since you can't count on all ho to not use it.

There are extremes, but to play devil's advocate, using your argument, you should only use single receptacles throughout any project, feed them with 15 and 20 amps respectively and dedicate every one, because you never know how they will be used. The code for example allows 1 bathroom circuit to share multiple bathrooms, but it is no stretch to believe that 3 kids may want to use their hair dryers at the same time before school. What is the difference in that.

PS saw Styx a couple of weeks ago. They were awesome!

 

[resistance]

The code for example allows 1 bathroom circuit to share multiple bathrooms, but it is no stretch to believe that 3 kids may want to use their hair dryers at the same time before school. What is the difference in that.

I was waiting on someone to try and bring this up. Sorry, bad example. I say this, because we are talking about a space that is dedicated to laundering cloths—which in my view means, a washer will be or maybe used in that space. A bathroom doesn’t have a specific demand requirement, so bad example. I’ve said it a few times. This laundry space has the necessary equipment to attach to a washer, so obviously this space may have a washer. If the space has the necessary plumbing to attach to a washer (Rather they install an appliance or not), then I call it a laundry space—where the 1500va shall apply for each additional laundry room. Note: I never said it was one laundry space—where multiply washers can be installed.