Dust Collector

[Dennis Alwon]

Dennis & Kwired, the question is: is this motor operated appliance (dust collector) considered continuous or other than continuous duty? Section 430.22(E) states if "Other than Continuous Duty" it does not need to be wired at 125%.

Michael, a motor as defined in 430 requires 125%. The fact that it is an appliance does not matter since it it a motor operated appliance.

Here is the other point to consider. YOu told me that the wiring method is nm cable. Under the 2008 NEC 12/2 NM is rated 25 amps so you could install a 25 amp breaker and it would be compliant. Under the 2011 it would not be.

 

[Michael15956]

Michael, a motor as defined in 430 requires 125%.

Dennis, where in 430 is the above written? Not trying to give you or anyone a hard time here, but if an inspector said I was in violation of Art 430, I would ask, what section?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Dennis, where in 430 is the above written? Not trying to give you or anyone a hard time here, but if an inspector said I was in violation of Art 430, I would ask, what section?

I already stated the art. # above ---art. 430.22

 

[Little Bill]

Dennis, where in 430 is the above written? Not trying to give you or anyone a hard time here, but if an inspector said I was in violation of Art 430, I would ask, what section?

I already stated the art. # above ---art. 430.22

Dennis & Kwired, the question is: is this motor operated appliance (dust collector) considered continuous or other than continuous duty? Section 430.22(E) states if "Other than Continuous Duty" it does not need to be wired at 125%.

One thing that might be confusing is the definition of continuous duty for a motor is different than what we are normally talking about with other items, such as lighting.
The difference is lighting, water heaters, etc. are continuous loads and motors are continious duty.
Look up the definitions in Article 100. Look under "duty-continuous" for the definition applied to motors.

Also, if the motor doesn't give a rating for use it is by default considered continuous duty.

 

[Michael15956]

One thing that might be confusing is the definition of continuous duty for a motor is different than what we are normally talking about with other items, such as lighting.
The difference is lighting, water heaters, etc. are continuous loads and motors are continious duty.
Look up the definitions in Article 100. Look under "duty-continuous" for the definition applied to motors.

Also, if the motor doesn't give a rating for use it is by default considered continuous duty.

I don't get it. Looked up the definitions and there are five duty types. Four of the duty types are not continuous. Maybe I reading the posts wrong, but it seems like I'm being told, if it is a motor it must be wired at 125% of the running amps. Is this right?

 

[Michael15956]

I already stated the art. # above ---art. 430.22

Dennis, 430.22 is for single motors used in a continuous duty. 430.22(E) are for motor that are "Other than Continuous Duty." So there are motors that do not have to be wired at 125%.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I believe a dust collector would be considered a continuous duty motor. I agree with Bill, I don't think it means it must run for 3 hours .

 

[kwired]

Dennis & Kwired, the question is: is this motor operated appliance (dust collector) considered continuous or other than continuous duty? Section 430.22(E) states if "Other than Continuous Duty" it does not need to be wired at 125%.

I think you already mentioned this, check the note at the bottom of table 430.22(E):

Note: Any motor application shall be considered as continuous dutyunless the nature of the apparatus it drives is such that the motor will​

not operate continuously with load under any condition of use.


What is going to keep this dust collector from potentially operating for more than 3 hours? Not saying it is impossible, to call it non-continuous, but the general rule says it is continuous.

 

[Michael15956]

I believe a dust collector would be considered a continuous duty motor. I agree with Bill, I don't think it means it must run for 3 hours .

Great, thanks! Dennis, I never wrote in this tread that a motor has to run for 3 hours to consider it continuous duty. Now, why do you think this dust collector would be considered a continuous duty motor?

I think it would be "Other than Continuous Duty."

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Read kwired's post

 

[Michael15956]

I think you already mentioned this, check the note at the bottom of table 430.22(E):

Note: Any motor application shall be considered as continuous dutyunless the nature of the apparatus it drives is such that the motor will​

not operate continuously with load under any condition of use.


What is going to keep this dust collector from potentially operating for more than 3 hours? Not saying it is impossible, to call it non-continuous, but the general rule says it is continuous.

Kwired, you are smart! You have read the entire tread, good for you! Now since we are here, where I wanted to go, do you think that little note is just for that table alone or applies for the entire 430 article? Seems to me a little odd, I would think there would be a section for that note. Maybe there is one, I don't know.

 

[Michael15956]

Read kwired's post

I did Sir. Now I have another question, sorry I know I'm a pain.

 

[Little Bill]

Bill, you are smart! You have read the entire tread, good for you! Now since we are here, where I wanted to go, do you think that little note is just for that table alone or applies for the entire 430 article? Seems to me a little odd, I would think there would be a section for that note. Maybe there is one, I don't know.

You addressed me, but quoted kwire! Now I'm confused!:?

 

[Michael15956]

You addressed me, but quoted kwire! Now I'm confused!:?

Sorry Bill, my mistake, but I think you are smart too!! No really. Now what do you think about that little note.

 

[Little Bill]

Sorry Bill, my mistake, but I think you are smart too!! No really. Now what do you think about that little note.

Well I think the table is for nameplate classifications. Most (not all) motor nameplates will show on the nameplate what rating the motor has. ie;5-min, 30min. etc. or continuous.
I think the note is saying if the classification is not on the nameplate or is unknown, you should consider the motor as continuous unless you are sure the motor will not run continuously under load. That is my condensed version.

Edit: In a nutshell...if the nameplate doesn't give a classification of the motor, you should consider it a continuous duty and wire/protect accordingly.

 

[kwired]

Kwired, you are smart! You have read the entire tread, good for you! Now since we are here, where I wanted to go, do you think that little note is just for that table alone or applies for the entire 430 article? Seems to me a little odd, I would think there would be a section for that note. Maybe there is one, I don't know.

I think all motors are continuous duty unless otherwise marked with a duty cycle, this note is just reaffirming that. The table does allow for adjustments for continuous duty motors used in a non continuous duty cycle application, but note the values for these motors in those situations are actually higher than the 125% normally used for continuous duty applications.

 

[Michael15956]

I think all motors are continuous duty unless otherwise marked with a duty cycle, QUOTE]How about a dishwasher or a cloths washer? Do you think they are continuous duty or loads and need to be wired at 125%?

 

[Michael15956]

Well I think the table is for nameplate classifications. Most (not all) motor nameplates will show on the nameplate what rating the motor has. ie;5-min, 30min. etc. or continuous.
I think the note is saying if the classification is not on the nameplate or is unknown, you should consider the motor as continuous unless you are sure the motor will not run continuously under load.

I agree.

 

[kwired]

I think all motors are continuous duty unless otherwise marked with a duty cycle, QUOTE]How about a dishwasher or a cloths washer? Do you think they are continuous duty or loads and need to be wired at 125%?

On a listed appliance like that the 125% (if necessary) is accounted for in the nameplate rating.

But those you mention are not continuous loads - unless it has a possible cycle that will last for three hours or more - just not seen in typical household versions anyway.

 

[Michael15956]

those you mention are not continuous loads - unless it has a possible cycle that will last for three hours or more - just not seen in typical household versions anyway.

I agree.

Another question, how does one know if the 125% in listed on the nametag rating?