motor reversing switch

[kwired]

Maybe not a 3PDT toggle... but a many supply houses will have a standard 3-position momentary operator and 6 NC contact blocks.

Are the contact blocks rated to handle the current of the motor? Most I have seen are pilot duty only.

 

[dicklaxt]

What did I miss,,,,,,,,,if you go back and look at the OP it states to reverse rotation swap the blue and yellow wires.

Get a single pole double throw, spring return, center off selector,,,120vac hot to the common on the switch,blue & yellow from motor to the switch and 120vac neutral to the motor.

Now if I missed something I don't know where.

dick

 

[kwired]

What did I miss,,,,,,,,,if you go back and look at the OP it states to reverse rotation swap the blue and yellow wires.

Get a single pole double throw, spring return, center off selector,,,120vac hot to the common on the switch,blue & yellow from motor to the switch and 120vac neutral to the motor.

Now if I missed something I don't know where.

dick

The blue and yellow happen to be the aux winding leads in the motor - reversing them changes rotation, you still need another pole that operates simultaneously to remove power from the main winding when in the off position.

 

[Smart $]

Are the contact blocks rated to handle the current of the motor? Most I have seen are pilot duty only.

Been a while since I checked, now that you mention it. Having done so, SqD Type KA series are rated for inductive 35% power factor, 60A make, 6A break, 10A continuous for 120V. Given the 10.4 FLA provided by jetlag earlier, I'd say borderline to handle full motor current... so 8 blocks would be better

 

[Smart $]

Duplicate...???

 

[kwired]

Been a while since I checked, now that you mention it. Having done so, SqD Type KA series are rated for inductive 35% power factor, 60A make, 6A break, 10A continuous for 120V. Given the 10.4 FLA provided by jetlag earlier, I'd say borderline to handle full motor current.

You bring up the KA series - the one I am most familiar with. I don't believe any are rated for HP, maybe they have some in catalog but the most common used and likely only ones to be in stock at a supply house, KA-1 to KA-5 definitely are not.

I have replaced a few that others have installed and used to switch more than just control components. They never last with motor loads connected to them.

 

[Smart $]

You bring up the KA series - the one I am most familiar with. I don't believe any are rated for HP, maybe they have some in catalog but the most common used and likely only ones to be in stock at a supply house, KA-1 to KA-5 definitely are not.

I have replaced a few that others have installed and used to switch more than just control components. They never last with motor loads connected to them.

Here's the catalog spec's...

I did say borderline... and your quote of my reply appears to have been before I added the comment about 8 blocks

 

[Smart $]

Here's the catalog spec's...

...

I did say borderline... and your quote of my reply appears to have been before I added the comment about 8 blocks

Anyway, all the more reason to just use a combination of adequately rated switches: one momentary for jog and one held dpdt for F/R (UP/DOWN).

 

[dicklaxt]

The blue and yellow happen to be the aux winding leads in the motor - reversing them changes rotation, you still need another pole that operates simultaneously to remove power from the main winding when in the off position.

Okay easy enough add the 2nd pole .jumper the two common poles together and tie the motor winding hot leg to both sides of the selector output.

dick

 

[Smart $]

Okay easy enough add the 2nd pole .jumper the two common poles together and tie the motor winding hot leg to both sides of the selector output.

dick

You need 3 poles (or a switch combination that effects the same result).

Let's call the the wires from the switch box to the motor:

• RW1 = Run Winding 1
• RW2 = Run Winding 2
• SW1 = Start Winding 1
• SW2 = Start Winding 2

Though there are more than four terminals at the motor, jumpers take care of those. Because the start winding's polarity must be reversed for change of rotation, we can only connect one direct, and that would be to one end of the run winding. So say....

• RW2 - Neutral (direct connect)

The other end of the run winding has to be connected to Line... but it must be switched.

• RW1 - Switch 1 - Line

Now the start winding gets connected to both Line and Neutral, but the connections must be flopped to change rotation direction. They must somehow be switched...

• SW1 - ____ - Line or Neutral
• SW2 - ____ - Neutral or Line

How do you propose we do this with only one remaining [switch] pole?

 

[dicklaxt]

My thoughts were that the start windings are magnetically arranged/opposed so that when energized they would start the ball rolling in opposite directions one vs the other and the run winding would keep it rolling.Somewhere I got that in my head that is the way it is or is this another of my old age oopsies?

If thats the case then a DPDT would work if not then agreed a 3PDT is needed.

dick

 

[Smart $]

My thoughts were that the start windings are magnetically arranged/opposed so that when energized they would start the ball rolling in opposite directions one vs the other and the run winding would keep it rolling.Somewhere I got that in my head that is the way it is or is this another of my old age oopsies?

If thats the case then a DPDT would work if not then agreed a 3PDT is needed.

dick

There is only one start winding. Both windings (run and start) must be energized at start. An internal centrifugal switch cuts out the start winding after the motor gets up to a threshold speed. Similar to how you start your car (assuming you don't have an electric or hybrid vehicle)... only you act as the speed switch and release the key from the start position, back to the run position. Now that I think of it, why don't they do this with car engines???

 

[texie]

Anyway, all the more reason to just use a combination of adequately rated switches: one momentary for jog and one held dpdt for F/R (UP/DOWN).

I already ealier on suggested this as quick and simple and readily available, but some thought it was not sophisticated enough. I never so much technical chest beating about such a simple little motor control.

 

[Smart $]

I already ealier on suggested this as quick and simple and readily available, but some thought it was not sophisticated enough. I never so much technical chest beating about such a simple little motor control.

I suggested it in post #7, two posts before you did.

 

[kwired]

There is only one start winding. Both windings (run and start) must be energized at start. An internal centrifugal switch cuts out the start winding after the motor gets up to a threshold speed. Similar to how you start your car (assuming you don't have an electric or hybrid vehicle)... only you act as the speed switch and release the key from the start position, back to the run position. Now that I think of it, why don't they do this with car engines???

If the motor is of a type that has a run capacitor, the centrifugal switch only cuts out the start capacitor - the aux winding is still in the circuit while running.


Did you crank up the speed on your avatar? It used to go much slower, then got faster, but I think is even faster now. Maybe it is directly linked to some real world piece of equipment and you can tell roughly how fast the real world equipment is operating by quickly looking at this avatar

 

[Smart $]

If the motor is of a type that has a run capacitor, the centrifugal switch only cuts out the start capacitor - the aux winding is still in the circuit while running.

See jetlag's second attachment in post#16.

Did you crank up the speed on your avatar? It used to go much slower, then got faster, but I think is even faster now. Maybe it is directly linked to some real world piece of equipment and you can tell roughly how fast the real world equipment is operating by quickly looking at this avatar

No change on my part. Speed seems to be due to browser-dependent handling of the Animated GIF protocol (i.e. format). It spins about 4-5 times faster in Chrome than it does in MSIE9.

 

[kwired]

See jetlag's second attachment in post#16.



No change on my part. Speed seems to be due to browser-dependent handling of the Animated GIF protocol (i.e. format). It spins about 4-5 times faster in Chrome than it does in MSIE9.

I have been regularly using EI and recently have been using Chrome. Guess they really have a "fast" browser:lol:

 

[jetlag]

Thanks Dicklaxt

Thanks Dicklaxt

Okay easy enough add the 2nd pole .jumper the two common poles together and tie the motor winding hot leg to both sides of the selector output.

dick

Thanks to all replies, here is update on my plan, and it is up for suggestions, I plan to use a common 4 way 20 amp dpdt switch to reverse the start winding . I know this is not motor rated but they have been running the winch for years with the same thing in a 15 amp so it should do fine. Also the switch wont make or break because it is put in position up or down before push button power is engaged. Now the push button I have on hand is a pilot duty 6 amp break with second pole added , like dicklaxt said since this is 120 v only motor , I can leave neutral connected at motor and parallel the hot through both poles on the momentary switches. That should give it a 12a break I would think . The FLA on the motor is 10.4 . They need to get winch going right away and all we have around here is ace and lowes . I told them at the worst a switch would blow and In the meantime I have ordered some heavier switches.

 

[dicklaxt]

Good luck ,flying by the seat of my pants these are only suggestions not knowing exactly whats inside that motor housing,,,,

be careful

dick

 

[jetlag]

thanks dicklaxt

thanks dicklaxt

Good luck ,flying by the seat of my pants these are only suggestions not knowing exactly whats inside that motor housing,,,,

be careful

dick

Ok , I know it will work because it is the same set up they had except they had a 15 amp for the 4 way and a spst 15 amp for the power switch . After all these years they finally had an accident that broke the rear cable and the rear of the boat went under water submerging the customers engine. It seems the customers dog was attacking the operator and he took his hand away from the power switch, when someone yelled stop he paniced and hit the reverse switch , since the start windings were allready disengaged from the cut out switch , the winch keep going up. someone said in a reply that on capacitor start the start winding stay connected and only the capacitor cuts out. I dont think that is true because the capacitor is in series with the start windings so both get disconnected together. Any way this doesn't have capacitor start , only start windings with a cut out. Thats why I going back with the momentary push buttom for power in place of the snap switch.