Difference

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resistance

Senior Member
Location
WA
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Outside of pay, bending conduit, and 3 phase. What do you believe is the core difference (Skills: What one should know?has to know over the other) between residential electricians and commercial electricians? Just some info, I?m working for a commercial company, and it seems we are doing residential work. Not learning anything new!! [/FONT]​
 

jusme123

Senior Member
Location
NY
Occupation
JW
...the range of knowledge needed for commercial/industrial electricians is far more than residential. Elevator/escalator, roof top units (RTU's), a variety of transformers, motor controls, complex fire alarm systems (with fan shutdown, elevator recall, door closures, kitchen hood shutdown, etc), are some items that a residential electrician will most likely never see or learn. I am not stating residential electricians are not worth their salt, they are, its just different worlds in the same field.
 
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GerryB

Senior Member
I worked many years commercial/industrial before the late 80's slowdown steered me into business for myself. I had a lot to learn, never even having done a service change. But it is probably not so much learning what to do but how to do it. You can tell when you see work done and it was not done by an electrician. I have seen work done and thought "this was done by a union guy or commercial guy moonlighting". I say that because usually it will be "overdone", like copper conductors for the service, maybe metal boxes where you could use plastic, dislike for #14 wire, stuff like that. I knew an older guy wiring an addition for his son didn't even use romex at all. Now there's nothing wrong with that, just if you're doing residential you can give the best price with residential material. Just my thoughts though, I could be way off base.
 

jusme123

Senior Member
Location
NY
Occupation
JW
LOL, not off base at all. I would not use #14 for residential wiring, metal boxes are stronger than the cheap plastic HD stuff, and copper is a better wire than aluminum. I'm a commercial/industrial electrician, more industrial lately.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
As a residential guy who has often hired commercial electricians I will say that most of them have no concept of the NEC esp. for residential work. There are many differences and nuances in residential.

Personally although maybe physically harder and more talent needed in bending conduit, I find commercial easier as most info is on a plan right down to how the circuits are run.

No doubt they both have their different challenges
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
...the range of knowledge needed for commercial/industrial electricians is far more than residential. Elevator/escalator, roof top units (RTU's), a variety of transformers, motor controls, complex fire alarm systems (with fan shutdown, elevator recall, door closures, kitchen hood shutdown, etc), are some items that a residential electrician will most likely never see or learn. I am not stating residential electricians are not worth their salt, they are, its just different worlds in the same field.
As a residential guy who has often hired commercial electricians I will say that most of them have no concept of the NEC esp. for residential work. There are many differences and nuances in residential.

Personally although maybe physically harder and more talent needed in bending conduit, I find commercial easier as most info is on a plan right down to how the circuits are run.

No doubt they both have their different challenges
These two positions are ultimately what the debate will come down to.

... What do you believe is the core difference ... between residential electricians and commercial electricians?...
Mostly, from what I can tell commercial guys are more likely to drink Budweiser or Miller; reisi guys like a lot of the micro brews.
 

resistance

Senior Member
Location
WA
Thanks for the input!! I can honestly say, I haven?t been in the commercial end long enough to know much. I agree with Dennis, and great input from justme and the others. To add: Industrial to me is totally different?yet commercial is a stepping stone to industrial (I believe). Note: Been seeing a few companies looking for industrial electricians?with strong emphasis on PLCs.
 

Stevareno

Senior Member
Location
Dallas, TX
In my experience, the methods make things different. Residential is the basics, commercial adds to that, and industrial is a whole 'nuther level.

If you learn the trade using industrial methods, then you are prepared for anything. If you learn only from residential, then you will need to expand your knowledge.

Around here, you can get a license to residential work only and I assume the test only covers those aspects.
 

jumper

Senior Member
The debate of commercial vs residential is constantly argued here and other places, I get bored with it.

What I believe is the real key to being an electrician over an installer/apprentice/whatever is based on three things.

1. Understanding theory and the ability to use it.

2. Code knowledge. NEC, IRC, IBC, etc...

3. Experience with installation, trouble shooting, materials, and maintenance/repair.

IMO, these qualities separate the men/women from the boys/girls.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
The debate of commercial vs residential is constantly argued here and other places, I get bored with it.

What I believe is the real key to being an electrician over an installer/apprentice/whatever is based on three things.

1. Understanding theory and the ability to use it.

2. Code knowledge. NEC, IRC, IBC, etc...

3. Experience with installation, trouble shooting, materials, and maintenance/repair.

IMO, these qualities separate the men/women from the boys/girls.


Be careful with that statement. I know a few female electricians who could hold thier own with anyone on this forum.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
As a residential guy who has often hired commercial electricians I will say that most of them have no concept of the NEC esp. for residential work. There are many differences and nuances in residential.

Personally although maybe physically harder and more talent needed in bending conduit, I find commercial easier as most info is on a plan right down to how the circuits are run.

No doubt they both have their different challenges

I have to agree with Dennis. I started out doing custom homes and pools, then got into commercial stuff. While working as a maintenance electrician I was doing my own thing on the side and I would have other guys in the shope come work for me. NMC had them totally confused and most couldn't figure out how to run a three way switch.

The thing with Resi work is that you have so much that is required where with commercial work you don't have to do any electrical and then if you do certain rules kick in.

Commercial/industrial is a gray line, you have a commercial building with an industrial occupancy so really the only difference when you talk about the two is motor controls and things like that. And I will be the first to admit that I was not good at trouble shooting equipment.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
I started on the Industrial side. Motor controls, buss ducts, capacitor banks, and PLC's.
To me this made "Troubleshooting" Residential work very easy but not installing it.
as far as all the rules for residential work I'd have to say I knew very little about it prior to joining this site.
I too have to stop and think when I have a romex with a certain number of wires in it and how to make it work.
I my world, I could always pull an extra wire or spares in a conduit if I needed them.
Both of them have thier challenges but I like the industrial side more.
All of the equipment is much heavier and I dont have to worry about breaking the glass leaves while troubleshooting a 3 thousand dollar chandalier while the owner is at the bottom of the ladder biting thier nails and trying to calm thier barking poodle.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
On ordinary residential, you will not make any money using a commercial electrician, as Dennis said the skill set is different, speed and efficiency is very important in residential. Industrial doesn't pay as much as commercial for some reason. (At least down here in the south)
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
As I see it the basic theory is the same whether you do residential only, commercial, heavy industrial, or whatever.

Ohms law is still the same in all installations, Kirchoff's laws are still the same, all that fundamental stuff is the same.

The NEC covers all of those installations also.

Many of the base rules in NEC are the same for a small dwelling as they are for a large industrial complex. Start in ART 230. In general only one service is allowed to supply a building or structure. Doesn't matter if that service is 60 amp 120/240 single phase or if it is 2000 amp 277/480 three phase. Same rule applies to both. Exceptions could kick in for either installation. The likelihood of exceptions kicking in in a dwelling is not as great, but is still a possiblilty. There is similar application of other articles.

Some people get into situations where they do not apply certain aspects of the trade very often or even apply them at all. The requirements in Art 210 are really for the most part more complicated to apply to a dwelling than to non dwellings. The requirements of Art 500-516 would seldom come up in a dwelling, but if a hazardous location environment does exist, they do apply.

A good electrician may not be at top of the game in all areas, but should at least be aware of what is out there and know how to deal with things they are not accustomed to if they run into them. One easy step is just being familiar with the NEC and knowing how to find applicable sections within the NEC when you run to something you are not all that familiar with.
 

iceworm

Curmudgeon still using printed IEEE Color Books
Location
North of the 65 parallel
Occupation
EE (Field - as little design as possible)
As I see it the basic theory is the same whether you do residential only, commercial, heavy industrial, or whatever. ...

Yes, this is true. BUT: I do only industrial. I seriously doubt I could be cost competative at commercial. I know I couldn't be cost competative with residential.

For example, I suspect that when I did my own house, it probably didn't cost me much more than that twice that of a residential grade electrician do minimum spec job. Or another way, maybe I made a dolar an hour doing residential.

Roping a house just doesn't take much in the troubleshooting department. It's about reptative work efficiency, speed, and overhead.

So, yeah, it's different.

ice
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Yes, this is true. BUT: I do only industrial. I seriously doubt I could be cost competative at commercial. I know I couldn't be cost competative with residential.

For example, I suspect that when I did my own house, it probably didn't cost me much more than that twice that of a residential grade electrician do minimum spec job. Or another way, maybe I made a dolar an hour doing residential.

Roping a house just doesn't take much in the troubleshooting department. It's about reptative work efficiency, speed, and overhead.

So, yeah, it's different.

ice

Different for some, not so much for others. Depends on what you regularly get involved with. I do a little bit of everything, that is what the demand is in a rural population area. I do just about anything from adding an outlet to an existing dwelling to large switchgear and complex controls. Farms are not the little ma and pa operation they once were, with exception to some small operations still clinging on, they are big business anymore. Crop farmers have more acres of land, genetics, and other agronomy practices make for higher yields, which means there is more grain, more fertilizer, more of everything, including more power and automation to make it work. Livestock operations are same way, it becomes more profitable to operate on a large scale. There are very few guys with just a dozen head of cattle or pigs, they have hundreds. Along with that comes automated feeding processes, as it is not ecomomically feasible to do so by old fashioned man power, labor costs are too high even with cheap labor.

Farm installations are becoming more of an industrial site. Sure I don't run into facilities as large as an automobile manufacturing plant, or a steel mill, but there is a lot of the same stuff around just on a smaller scale. I have never installed a 2000 amp service, but does not mean I have not worked in places that have one. The base rules are still the same for a 60 amp service anyway, you just have bigger components and parallel conductors, which is not uncommon on 400 - 800 amp circuits which I don't do everyday but do run into often enough they are not that unusual.

I have a dairy farm I do occasional work at. This farm is owned by third or fourth generation of a family. I can assure you the first generation may not even used much for electricity at all, then a 60 amp 120/240 service at the barn was considered a lot of power at one time. The new barn (up to 10 years old at the most) has 277/480 volt service 800 amps, and instead of milking just two to four cows at once they can milk 30 - 40 cows at once.

Some of the city guys may limit themselves to one type of installation only, and the guys employed by an industrial facility only see that facility, but some of us get all around the industry.
 
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