There is a house with an overhead service and the utilities kwh meter mounted on the house. There is no disconnect on the outside of the house. If I put a detached garage and want to run underground to it and put a 100 amp panel in it, do I need to add a disconnect by the meter socket at the house and run a 4 wire service to the garage or can I get by with running a 3 wire directly from the meter socket to the panel in the garage? Thx.
Disconnect for detached garage?
- Thread starter ammklq143
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
No need for a disconnect if you come off the meter. 3 wires assuming single phase...
John120/240
Senior Member
- Location
- Olathe, Kansas
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I believe you can get 2 barrel lugs for the meters. The other option is a trough.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
Yes, you can.
Why do it? Because you can. If there is no metalic connection between the two structures there is no need, or benifit, from the fouth conductor.
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
I thought the code changes a few cycles back (2005? 2008?) closed this loophole - that now you had to run 4 wires to the detached building, treat it as a 'sub.'
As for the disconnect, I'm accustomed to places using the Building Code/ Fire Code to require an outside disconnect for ant building with more than one circuit.
Anyway, that's what I would do ... change the service drop to have two breakers (one for house, one for garage), and feed the garage with 4 wires. I'd have a disco at the garage as well.
Finally, don't forget about ground rods at the garage.
As for the disconnect, I'm accustomed to places using the Building Code/ Fire Code to require an outside disconnect for ant building with more than one circuit.
Anyway, that's what I would do ... change the service drop to have two breakers (one for house, one for garage), and feed the garage with 4 wires. I'd have a disco at the garage as well.
Finally, don't forget about ground rods at the garage.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
It did, but that was for feeders. What the OP has will be a service if he does it the way he described.
From the sound of your reply, your thinking about shoving another wire into the lug along with the existing.
You cant do this if the Lug is not rated to accept (2) conductors.
All of the meter bases around here have saddle type lugs which are only suitable for 1 conductor and what your describing would not be allowed.
JAP>
On another note, The Authorities having jurisdiction around here will not let you travel more than 6' beyond the Load side of the meter to the first means of Overcurrent Protection. Therefore, here , you would have to find a set of double barrel lugs for the load side of the meter somehow,then you then could use 3 wire for up to 6' to the overcurrent protection device, then you'd have to install a 4 wire feeder to the detached garage and then you'd have to argue why your means of disconnects werent grouped together at the same location since you have 1 outside and 1 inside.
I'm like the previous poster suggested. I'd rebuild the service with a Combo Meter Main/Mains and be done with it.
but thats just me.
JAP>
I'm like the previous poster suggested. I'd rebuild the service with a Combo Meter Main/Mains and be done with it.
but thats just me.
JAP>
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
There are different cities around that have thier own requirements (As Ammendments I guess).
Each are a little different.
So around here, doing it the way the OP was stating it would have to turn into a Feeder almost immediately.
How would you extend the service from an Existing Meter to a detached garage that was 50' away?
Around here if you tap the Load Side of the Meter youd have to put the Overcurrent Protection device within 6' then it becomes a 4 wire feeder to the garage.
If the power company was to somehow let you tap the line side of the meter and extend it to the detached garage (Which isnt going to happen) you'd have to treat the garage as a seperate service and install another meter at detached garage and pay a seperate meter bill for that seperate structure (Which isnt going to happen).
None of this is making sense to me.
JAP>
Each are a little different.
So around here, doing it the way the OP was stating it would have to turn into a Feeder almost immediately.
How would you extend the service from an Existing Meter to a detached garage that was 50' away?
Around here if you tap the Load Side of the Meter youd have to put the Overcurrent Protection device within 6' then it becomes a 4 wire feeder to the garage.
If the power company was to somehow let you tap the line side of the meter and extend it to the detached garage (Which isnt going to happen) you'd have to treat the garage as a seperate service and install another meter at detached garage and pay a seperate meter bill for that seperate structure (Which isnt going to happen).
None of this is making sense to me.
JAP>
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
If you tap the load side of the meter then you do not need a disconnect until it enters the building. So as long as the meter is outside then you can run unfused conductor out to the detached structure no matter how far-- not any different then the poco does.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
So the way to bring all of the old 3 wire feeders up to code that are now unacceptable would be to go out and remove the Fused Disconnect or Enclosed Breaker , Install a 3r Junction Box and Extend the now "Service Wires" to the Load side of the Meter and take the Disconnect or Breaker and nail it on the house and change the Feeder from the Disconnect to the Panel to 4 wire.
I'm going to have to say in this instance the "Ammenders" are making a lot more sense than the "Code Makers".
JAP.
I'm going to have to say in this instance the "Ammenders" are making a lot more sense than the "Code Makers".
JAP.
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
Dennis, this looks like another area where you and I will have to agree to disagree.
IMO, you need a disco, or at least an overload device, as soon as you leave the meter. With the tamper-resistant ring locks and law changes, the days where you can just pop out the meter are long gone- and I'm far to much a believer in Murphy's law.
I really hate the idea of a wire I can't turn off.
There's just too much that can go wrong.
To paraphrase mothers everywhere ... if the PoCo jumped off a cliff, would you follow?
IMO, you need a disco, or at least an overload device, as soon as you leave the meter. With the tamper-resistant ring locks and law changes, the days where you can just pop out the meter are long gone- and I'm far to much a believer in Murphy's law.
I really hate the idea of a wire I can't turn off.
There's just too much that can go wrong.
To paraphrase mothers everywhere ... if the PoCo jumped off a cliff, would you follow?
- Location
- Connecticut
- Occupation
- Engineer
Need? Based on what? The NEC requires a means to disconnect all conductors in a building or other structure from the service-entrance conductors. The disconnecting means shall be at a readily accessible location either outside of the building or structure or inside at the nearest point of entrance of the service conductors.
You can't "turn off" the service conductors regardless of where the disconnecting means is located.
- Status