Refrigerator(s) no longer allowed in garage - LOL

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jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
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ESI, PI, RBO
210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for
Personnel. Ground-fault circuit-interruption for personnel
shall be provided as required in 210.8(A) through (C). The
ground-fault circuit-interrupter shall be installed in a
readily accessible location.
210.8location.JPG

Sounds like the GFCI is not allowed behind the frig?
 
jxofaltrds said:
210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for
Personnel. Ground-fault circuit-interruption for personnel
shall be provided as required in 210.8(A) through (C). The
ground-fault circuit-interrupter shall be installed in a
readily accessible location.
Sounds like the GFCI is not allowed behind the frig?
Click to expand...

Throw in the receptacle mounted in the ceiling for a garage door opener too. :)

Of course the GFCI protection can be located elsewhere.
 
infinity said:
Throw in the receptacle mounted in the ceiling for a garage door opener too. :)

Of course the GFCI protection can be located elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Our inspectors here required a blankface on the wall for the GDO.

Ohio has removed the GDO and sump (if a single rec) from the GFCI requirement.
 
To me this begs the question of how are current GFCI receptacles doing with regards to motor loads. I've seen a few families take a vacation and come back with a defrosted freezer and lots of $ lost on meat products due to receptacle failure. But that's been a while now. I haven't done any residential for a few years. But I'm still seeing plenty of failures with water coolers which we have a bazillion of here in Hawaii. Are they getting any better?
 
Product standard from UL limits leakage current from appilances to .5 mA. Older friges with heat stripes in door jambs will cause GFCI to trip.

Can you clarify "But I'm still seeing plenty of failures with water coolers which we have a bazillion of here in Hawaii".GFCIs are failing, or tripping?
If tripping could it be the leakage current on the water cooler and not a GFCI issue?
 
Sparky3141 said:
To me this begs the question of how are current GFCI receptacles doing with regards to motor loads. I've seen a few families take a vacation and come back with a defrosted freezer and lots of $ lost on meat products due to receptacle failure. But that's been a while now. Are they getting any better?
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HOMEOWNER here in regards to this answer (pretend engineer with industrial electro-hydraulic commissioning responsibilities); I've had 3 trips in 4 months when there were lightning storms; 1 had a motor load (GDO) but it was not involved. I'm glad they exist when they would save a life, but wish they didn't when there isn't any real danger. Perhaps <g> I need to hire someone to watch over our use of electricity?
 
Install the gfci just outside the footprint of the refrigerator and you're good. Often many receptacles are in the garage so the refrigerator can be plugged into a non gfci

GDO-- we do the same - dead face gfci on the wall and it is not an issue
 
jxofaltrds said:
210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for
Personnel. Ground-fault circuit-interruption for personnel
shall be provided as required in 210.8(A) through (C). The
ground-fault circuit-interrupter shall be installed in a
readily accessible location.
View attachment 9493

Sounds like the GFCI is not allowed behind the frig?
Click to expand...
This is an overstep of the NEC handbook. Had they shown a picture with a refrigerator, it may have been more appropriate, but for an installing electrician to determine where a homeowner is going to put a dresser is going too far! If this is the intent of the code writers then perhaps they should just require all GFI's be protected by breakers in the panel only.
 
Strathead said:
This is an overstep of the NEC handbook. Had they shown a picture with a refrigerator, it may have been more appropriate, but for an installing electrician to determine where a homeowner is going to put a dresser is going too far! If this is the intent of the code writers then perhaps they should just require all GFI's be protected by breakers in the panel only.
Click to expand...

I agree. So an inspector could turn down any GFCI installed where it 'could' be blocked by furniture.

90.1 Purpose.
(A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is
the practical safeguarding of persons and property from
hazards arising from the use of electricity.

If the GFCI trips no hazard from "use" arises. :cool:

blocked.jpg
 
Michael15956 said:
Where can I read this? thanks
Click to expand...

http://com.ohio.gov/dico/BBS/

http://com.ohio.gov/documents/dico_2013RCOSummaryofSignificantChanges.pdf

Chapter 34 This Chapter incorporates the 2011 Edition of the National Electric Code (NEC)
NPFA 70 to regulate the installation, testing and operation of electrical systems.
Significant changes to the 2011 NEC incorporated by reference by this Chapter
include: adds requirements for GFCI protection near sinks; adds receptacles for
balcony, decks & porches; adds receptacle requirements for large foyers; adds
requirements for ground rods; adds requirements for listed fan boxes; adds
requirement for grounded conductor at switch locations; adds requirements for
GFCI protection of electrical heating cables in kitchen masonry floors; adds Ohiospecific
exemption from GFCI protection requirements for sump pumps and
garage doors.

Edit:

Forgot to add that single recepts are required but would have to search for the exact wording.

Start at the first link for all Ohio related questions.
 
Last edited:
Strathead said:
This is an overstep of the NEC handbook. Had they shown a picture with a refrigerator, it may have been more appropriate, but for an installing electrician to determine where a homeowner is going to put a dresser is going too far! If this is the intent of the code writers then perhaps they should just require all GFI's be protected by breakers in the panel only.
Click to expand...
If that thing under the window were a covered radiator instead of a bookcase or table, it would be visible at inspection time and also not readily accessible.


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Strathead said:
This is an overstep of the NEC handbook. Had they shown a picture with a refrigerator, it may have been more appropriate, but for an installing electrician to determine where a homeowner is going to put a dresser is going too far! If this is the intent of the code writers then perhaps they should just require all GFI's be protected by breakers in the panel only.
Click to expand...

This illustration is actually from IAEI. I have to agree that it is a poor choice to illustrate the readily accessible requirement. As you imply, the next thing we get is a requirement that it has to be installed in a location that it is impossible to make it not readily accessible. I'm sure that there will be some AHJ nanny type will see it this way.
 
texie said:
This illustration is actually from IAEI. I have to agree that it is a poor choice to illustrate the readily accessible requirement. As you imply, the next thing we get is a requirement that it has to be installed in a location that it is impossible to make it not readily accessible. I'm sure that there will be some AHJ nanny type will see it this way.
Click to expand...

I think the picture shows exactly what this means:

Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of being
reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections
without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite
to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable
ladders, and so forth.

Nothing can be in the way.
 
jxofaltrds said:
I think the picture shows exactly what this means:

Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of being
reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections
without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite
to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable
ladders, and so forth.

Nothing can be in the way.
Click to expand...

Well, when the inspector is doing his final I don't think there will be furniture there. Inspector says, "the homeowner may put some furniture there". I say, "it's none of your business what somebody may put there in the future that is not part of the structure".
If the NEC wants to make it impossible to prevent this they are going to have to rewrite this.
 
texie said:
Well, when the inspector is doing his final I don't think there will be furniture there. Inspector says, "the homeowner may put some furniture there". I say, "it's none of your business what somebody may put there in the future that is not part of the structure".
If the NEC wants to make it impossible to prevent this they are going to have to rewrite this.
Click to expand...

Please note that a GFCI is shown. My guess is that in the picture shown it was a replacement per 406. So probably will not see it on new construction. I think that they are trying to make a point.
 
jxofaltrds said:
Please note that a GFCI is shown. My guess is that in the picture shown it was a replacement per 406. So probably will not see it on new construction. I think that they are trying to make a point.
Click to expand...
My point is that if I choose to put a GFCI recep. where a piece of furniture may at some point be put in front of it the wording of the code does not prevent that.
 
jxofaltrds said:
Our inspectors here required a blankface on the wall for the GDO.

Ohio has removed the GDO and sump (if a single rec) from the GFCI requirement.
Click to expand...
Why can't GDO be on same circuit as another receptacle (maybe in the garage, but doesn't really have to be either) that is a GFCI and provides protection? That is what I usually do, there is no requirement that the GDO be on a separate circuit from other outlets.

Sparky3141 said:
To me this begs the question of how are current GFCI receptacles doing with regards to motor loads. I've seen a few families take a vacation and come back with a defrosted freezer and lots of $ lost on meat products due to receptacle failure. But that's been a while now. I haven't done any residential for a few years. But I'm still seeing plenty of failures with water coolers which we have a bazillion of here in Hawaii. Are they getting any better?
Click to expand...
As long as you don't buy the cheapest GFCI receptacles you can find there generally isn't much problem. Lightning storms sometimes still trip even the best of them though. When motors are tripping them it is generally from inductive kickback. Your well known brand names are usually designed better to not respond to that kickback, the cheap ones that have no name on the device -- are junk and usually not too desirable to have around.

texie said:
Well, when the inspector is doing his final I don't think there will be furniture there. Inspector says, "the homeowner may put some furniture there". I say, "it's none of your business what somebody may put there in the future that is not part of the structure".
If the NEC wants to make it impossible to prevent this they are going to have to rewrite this.
Click to expand...
Same goes for 110.26, what if the inspector says "the homeowner may put some furniture, or even a refrigerator there" when looking at a panel location? You know and they know darn well that the majority of those panels will not always have 110.26 free space in front of them at all times. When I have to come back to do service work or install a new circuit I am just tickled to death when the only obstacles that are in the way are things that are relatively simple to move.
 
I may take this a step further, it has been debated here before and most agree that a panelboard is still considered "readily accessible" even if it has a locked door, or is in a room with a locked door or other limited access. Now if the GFCI is a circuit breaker type, is is still "readily accessible" under these same conditions.

Some really strict interpretation could mean it is not readily accessible with a door on the cover even though no tools or keys are necessary to open the door.

Is a GFCI receptacle above a kitchen counter with a toaster or coffee maker in front of it not readily accessible?

Is a GFCI receptacle above a kitchen counter readily accessible even with nothing on the counter? A really short person or some disabled person maybe can not access it without some help from a ladder or some other device?

Is a GFCI with a weatherproof cover being the only obstruction "readily accessible"? You do have to open the cover before you can access it?

I can maybe come up with a few more that could be easily overlooked yet if you are strict in interpretation are not readily accessible.
 
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