Faled Inspection for Lack of UFER and CERT

[hdt1980]

Hi, i just failed my temp / permanent meter base inspection for lack of UFER. The install is in a remodeled house, with existing basement (where panel box is located). I installed two new ground rods min. 6 ft apart as well as a #6 awg to the buried cold water line 12" from entrance. The inspector has failed me for lack of UFER and certification, CEE with existing footing/slab? I have read the NEC code over and over, and from what i see as long as i have two ground rods plus cold water ground i should be good. Let me know if i am wrong.

Thanks,

HDT

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If there wasn't a new footing poured then no CONCRETE ENCASED ELECTRODE is required. The #6 to the rods is all that is needed however I don't know what size service you have there so the #6 to the water pipe may or may not be compliant. If the service is 100- 150 amp you are good but not for 200 amps

 

[jxofaltrds]

Agree with Dennis.

Now how does he know that a CEE is "available"/"present"?

What cert is he asking for? 25 OHMS?

Did you ask him for the code Article? Not the Chapter or the NEC the Article #.

 

[Gregg Harris]

Hi, i just failed my temp / permanent meter base inspection for lack of UFER. The install is in a remodeled house, with existing basement (where panel box is located). I installed two new ground rods min. 6 ft apart as well as a #6 awg to the buried cold water line 12" from entrance. The inspector has failed me for lack of UFER and certification, CEE with existing footing/slab? I have read the NEC code over and over, and from what i see as long as i have two ground rods plus cold water ground i should be good. Let me know if i am wrong.

Thanks,

HDT

Was this in Fairfax?

 

[Smart $]

Sounds like there may be some missing information. Why do you have a temp/permanent meter base if this is a remodeled house? ... and why do you say existing basement? Was a new portion added to the existing basement or otherwise a new addition made to the house where the new foundation should have been used as CEE?

 

[hdt1980]

Guys,

thanks for the all the input, I actually was not there for the inspection I had to take care of family business, so one of my co-workers was at the site for the inspection. My fault.

1. There was a new footing installed below grade dug little over 24" deep for an addition (crawl space). When i was called to do the job the footer was complete as well as the framing. The new addition is about 30 ft. from where the panel resides.

2. The permit was for a heavy up & in Fairfax, VA this is what is required to install a new meterbase, have the power company swap power after county inspections, then a final inspection is conducted.

3. The service is 200 amps, and i actually installed solid #4 from the ground rods, and a #6 THWN from the cold water line.

4. He didn't specify what cert he is looking for.

any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[hdt1980]

Whoops, too early to think here.

3. The service is 200 amps, and i actually installed solid #6 from the ground rods, and a #4 THWN from the cold water line.

 

[GoldDigger]

Unfortunately the pouring of the new footing probably (barring vapor barrier or coated rebar) created a CEE which you are required to connect to even though it was poured before you got there. Somebody will have to break some concrete.

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[petersonra]

Unfortunately the pouring of the new footing probably (barring vapor barrier or coated rebar) created a CEE which you are required to connect to even though it was poured before you got there. Somebody will have to break some concrete.

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that would be my take on it.

 

[hdt1980]

Okay, i can get the General Contractor to do it, now when he breaks up the concrete what is the best way to attach my conductor to the rebar, should i have him attach a piece of rebar (min. two wire ties) out of the footer? How far out should it stick out? How far into the footer will he need to break up? Sorry for all the questions, i have never had to do a CEE before.

Thanks,

HDT

 

[infinity]

Guys,


1. There was a new footing installed below grade dug little over 24" deep for an addition (crawl space). When i was called to do the job the footer was complete as well as the framing. The new addition is about 30 ft. from where the panel resides.



any help is greatly appreciated.

Does the new footing qualify as a CEE as installed?

 

[Smart $]

Does the new footing qualify as a CEE as installed?

The answer to this question is first priority. It is not required to make it into one if it does not qualify as installed.

Okay, i can get the General Contractor to do it, now when he breaks up the concrete what is the best way to attach my conductor to the rebar, should i have him attach a piece of rebar (min. two wire ties) out of the footer? How far out should it stick out? How far into the footer will he need to break up? Sorry for all the questions, i have never had to do a CEE before.

Thanks,

HDT

There's been some debate on whether you can bring the rebar out of the concrete. Some AHJ's will allow, others won't. Best bet is to just get enough access to the internal rebar to attach your GEC, which will be necessary anyway even to attached rebar. Approved methods of attaching the GEC to the rebar also vary by AHJ. Exothermic welding is safest bet. Tie wiring???

 

[infinity]

Sounds like he wants to extend the rebar with another small piece of rebar tie wired to the existing.

 

[Smart $]

Sounds like he wants to extend the rebar with another small piece of rebar tie wired to the existing.

That's my impression... but it seems he wants to bring it out of the concrete beyond any patching then connect his GEC to the rebar stub out. Code says the metallic components must be encased in 2" of concrete and located within the foundation.

 

[GoldDigger]

That's my impression... but it seems he wants to bring it out of the concrete beyond any patching then connect his GEC to the rebar stub out. Code says the metallic components must be encased in 2" of concrete and located within the foundation.

At some point there has to be a transition between the metallic components (counted in the 20 foot linear dimension required) and the electrode conductor.
If rebar is not an allowed medium to make up a GEC, then the transition to copper or copper clad Al would have to be buried in the concrete. :thumbsup:
Maybe the best solution for the OP would be to have the GC leave a large enough pocket for a ground clamp or cadweld and the EC will then fill it with patch when done?

 

[Smart $]

At some point there has to be a transition between the metallic components (counted in the 20 foot linear dimension required) and the electrode conductor.
If rebar is not an allowed medium to make up a GEC, then the transition to copper or copper clad Al would have to be buried in the concrete. :thumbsup:
Maybe the best solution for the OP would be to have the GC leave a large enough pocket for a ground clamp or cadweld and the EC will then fill it with patch when done?

No question on how to do it from my perspective. Who does the patching would be the only question in my mind.

 

[jxofaltrds]

How does he know a CEE is present?

Did he inspect the CEE prior to the pour?

Sounds like the concrete guy has a problem.

Is it your responsibility to connect to the CEE or provide it?

Do you install metal water lines? What if the plumber doesn't give you a place to use (attach to) a metal water line as an electrode?

Sounds like the GC is the one who has to solve the problem!

 

[Smart $]

How does he know a CEE is present?

Did he inspect the CEE prior to the pour?

I think that's where the certification part comes in.

Sounds like the concrete guy has a problem.

Is it your responsibility to connect to the CEE or provide it?

Do you install metal water lines? What if the plumber doesn't give you a place to use (attach to) a metal water line as an electrode?

Sounds like the GC is the one who has to solve the problem!

I believe its the EC's responsibility to be there after rebar is installed then get it inspected prior to concrete pour. In most jurisdictions I have been involved with, a structural pre-pour inspection is required, too, and both inspections are often performed by the same inspector.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I think that's where the certification part comes in.


I believe its the EC's responsibility to be there after rebar is installed then get it inspected prior to concrete pour. In most jurisdictions I have been involved with, a structural pre-pour inspection is required, too, and both inspections are often performed by the same inspector.

I hope that inspector has an ESI or he has a major problem(Ohio). Building Inspector can't do that.

If the BBS allows this I'd like to see that opinion.

 

[Smart $]

I hope that inspector has an ESI or he has a major problem(Ohio). Building Inspector can't do that.

If the BBS allows this I'd like to see that opinion.

Combo inspector was not in Ohio.