Dang Home inspectors.

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ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Daughter is trying to sell her house. One of the gigs by a HI is that the GFCIs trip to slow. Home is 4 years old.

"All GFCI outlets when tested broke power too slow to meet current standards. Current standard is to break power within 25-30 milliseconds after being tested with a 7.5 milliamp load. All GFCI in the home broke at 115-164 or more milliseconds. Need to remove and replace existing GFCI outlets with new GFCI outlets"

Anyone have a reference for this requirement?

Personally I would ask to see his latest calibration documents, but other than that, is he FOS?
 
Ponchik

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
I thought the only way to test a GFCI is the "TEST/RESET" button??
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
edward said:
This is what i found from the green lee tester 5708
Click to expand...

A bit too small to read for us old farts.
Magnify.gif
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
ptonsparky said:
...
"All GFCI outlets when tested broke power too slow to meet current standards. Current standard is to break power within 25-30 milliseconds after being tested with a 7.5 milliamp load. All GFCI in the home broke at 115-164 or more milliseconds. Need to remove and replace existing GFCI outlets with new GFCI outlets"
...
Click to expand...
UL 943, the standard for GFCIs permits a 4.06 second time to trip for a 7.5mA fault. The maximum permitted time to trip in seconds is equal to the quantity (20/fault current in mA) raised to the 1.43 power.

The following is from: http://www.ieci.org/newsroom-and-insights/preventing-electrocutions
So as an example, for a high impedance fault which would result in a small current flowing, say 6mA as an example, the GFCI device as per the above equation will take 5.59 seconds to trip.
In reality, all GFCI devices trip much faster than that required by UL 943 and a 6mA fault would normally take no more than 0.1 seconds to be cleared by an off the shelf GFCI device. Give or take a few of course.
Click to expand...
 
infinity

infinity

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Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I equate tests like this with HI's using fancy testers to test for voltage drop. They plug in their new tool and press the button which reveals at full load that receptacle on the other side of the house has a 6% VD. IMO it's kind of meaningless unless the testing could find a bad connection or something that may end up as dangerous.
 
ceb58

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
edward said:
I thought the only way to test a GFCI is the "TEST/RESET" button??
Click to expand...

The last I knew anything about it was the test button was the ONLY approved method by UL.

infinity said:
I would go with that. The result of the HI's test are not really relevant.
Click to expand...

GFCI's are in place in the locations the NEC calls for. The GFCI trips when the test button is pushed per the instructions. His inspection is a tool for the buyer to beat down the seller on price nothing more. Carries no weight he can move on to the next made up problem.
 
G

GoldDigger

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Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
The detailed time current characteristics are for testing during the listing evaluation.
No way are they intended for field testing of a delivered product by an HI.
Especially one who cannot even read the standard in the first place.

Tapatalk!
 
Last edited:
growler

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
ptonsparky said:
"All GFCI outlets when tested broke power too slow to meet current standards"
Click to expand...


I would call the home inspector and see if he would E-Mail the current standards or his inspection criteria to you. Be interesting to know where he gets his information.

Who knows he may have been taught this in some class and just doesn't know any better.
 
Ponchik

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
growler said:
I would call the home inspector and see if he would E-Mail the current standards or his inspection criteria to you. Be interesting to know where he gets his information.

Who knows he may have been taught this in some class and just doesn't know any better.
Click to expand...

OP,

ask for that information from the home inspector. Maybe he knows something that none of us know and we can all learn from him/her.
 
J

jim dungar

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Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
ceb58 said:
His inspection is a tool for the buyer to beat down the seller on price nothing more.
Click to expand...
So, the last time I sold a house, I hired my own HI first. It cost me some dollars, but then I was prepared for what the sellers might try to beat me down on. Watch what happens when two HI reports are different.
 
H

handy10

Senior Member
Location
western suburbs, chicago
It sounds like the HI is blowing smoking and asking where he gets the information might be a good idea. However, if he has released his report to a prospective buyer, it will be difficult to undo the damage that was done by counter argument. Most homes have only a few GFIs and replacing them is not that costly, especially for an electrician. I suggest that you replace the devices unless the HI has not released a report to a buyer.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Just change the devices and forget about trying to prove the HI is out of line.

Holding up a home sale over some GFCIs is nuts.
 
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