Is running a neutral "through" a 3P disconnect switch legal?

[kwired]

Same here, and good bad or indifferent if theres a neutral coming into a panel or a disconnect, I land it.

A panel that ends up with multiple branches is one thing, a disconnect with one in and one out is another thing. Now enter the disconnect with no neutral assembly installed and no need for any additional branches leaving - why bother landing it on anything? You could always use a tap device or the neutral assembly designed for the disconnect if you ever need to tap off this conductor, and you would likely be using a tap device on the ungrounded conductors as well in that situation.

 

[iwire]

A panel that ends up with multiple branches is one thing, a disconnect with one in and one out is another thing. Now enter the disconnect with no neutral assembly installed and no need for any additional branches leaving - why bother landing it on anything? You could always use a tap device or the neutral assembly designed for the disconnect if you ever need to tap off this conductor, and you would likely be using a tap device on the ungrounded conductors as well in that situation.

Exactly my feeling as well.

 

[jap]

A panel that ends up with multiple branches is one thing, a disconnect with one in and one out is another thing. Now enter the disconnect with no neutral assembly installed and no need for any additional branches leaving - why bother landing it on anything? You could always use a tap device or the neutral assembly designed for the disconnect if you ever need to tap off this conductor, and you would likely be using a tap device on the ungrounded conductors as well in that situation.

Generally I like it there to take voltage readings not for the need of the tap.
and if you dont land the neutral to begin with theres probably a good chance that the original installer didnt leave enough slack to land it on a future Neutral block and a Tap device is just plain cheezy in this scenario.

JMHO

JAP>

 

[kwired]

Generally I like it there to take voltage readings not for the need of the tap.
and if you dont land the neutral to begin with theres probably a good chance that the original installer didnt leave enough slack to land it on a future Neutral block and a Tap device is just plain cheezy in this scenario.

JMHO

JAP>

Most neutral assemblies as long as the conductor is routed where the assembly goes, all that is needed is careful selection of where to cut the conductor. You could use insulation piercing probe to take a measurement, or even bare a small amount to gain access and reinsulate if necessary. And I used to do work in a place where they made cheese so I find the cheezy comment just plain offensive.

 

[jap]

Most neutral assemblies as long as the conductor is routed where the assembly goes, all that is needed is careful selection of where to cut the conductor. You could use insulation piercing probe to take a measurement, or even bare a small amount to gain access and reinsulate if necessary. And I used to do work in a place where they made cheese so I find the cheezy comment just plain offensive.

All unnecessary if you would just land the neutral to begin with.

JAP.

 

[kwired]

All unnecessary if you would just land the neutral to begin with.

JAP.

Then we would need to find something else to debate over.

 

[jap]

Then we would need to find something else to debate over.

No debate on that.

 

[GoldDigger]

Then we would need to find something else to debate over.

Like whether you could land the two ends under a single screw or would have to have a 2 or more lug neutral strip?

 

[RichB]

Exactly my feeling as well.

ditto , ditto---used to do it all the time, if there was a neutral buss we used it--if not,,,,--you want to read to Neutral and not ground--poke a tip through the insulation--as has been stated--it needs to be run with the circuit conductors

 

[roger]

Except for the fact that a safety switch is larger than a snap switch, the scenario of running an unbroken neutral through an enclosure is no different than running an unbroken neutral through a switch box.


If there is no reason to break a conductor, then IMO, it shouldn't be broken just to terminate to itself again.

Roger

 

[jap]

ditto , ditto---used to do it all the time, if there was a neutral buss we used it--if not,,,,--you want to read to Neutral and not ground--poke a tip through the insulation--as has been stated--it needs to be run with the circuit conductors

Everyones talking like the disconnects are existing or that someone else is providing them.
Generally I purchase all the disconnects for my projects so its my choice to install the neutral block or not.

If a black wire is passing through the disconnect,how do I know its a neutral? unless I open take the panel cover off or look inside the transformer and see where it goes.
Especially if its #4 or larger and the conductor is black. Of course I would expect it to be, but since it isnt termated in the disconnet, and more than likely not phase taped as it passes through the disconnect, it could just as well be an Isolated Ground wire coming from a ground lug in the Transformer and you would not be taking readings from a true neutral at all.

 

[iwire]

All unnecessary if you would just land the neutral to begin with.

JAP.

True, but spending extra money that is not required by contract is also unnecessary.

Now if it is T&M or in house work that is a different story.

 

[kwired]

Everyones talking like the disconnects are existing or that someone else is providing them.
Generally I purchase all the disconnects for my projects so its my choice to install the neutral block or not.

If a black wire is passing through the disconnect,how do I know its a neutral? unless I open take the panel cover off or look inside the transformer and see where it goes.
Especially if its #4 or larger and the conductor is black. Of course I would expect it to be, but since it isnt termated in the disconnet, and more than likely not phase taped as it passes through the disconnect, it could just as well be an Isolated Ground wire coming from a ground lug in the Transformer and you would not be taking readings from a true neutral at all.

If it doesn't terminate I guess it doesn't require identification, but nothing says it can't be identified either. An EGC would have to be bonded to the enclosure, if it is the only conductor that passes through with no break whatsoever my first guess would be it is a grounded circuit conductor.

 

[jap]

If it doesn't terminate I guess it doesn't require identification, but nothing says it can't be identified either. An EGC would have to be bonded to the enclosure, if it is the only conductor that passes through with no break whatsoever my first guess would be it is a grounded circuit conductor.

That would be my first GUESS also, whereas if it was terminated on a Neutral Block in the disconnect there would be no guess work to it.

JAP>

 

[Enlightened]

I was out of pocket yesterday and didn't have a chance to jump back in to the conversation. In the end, the electrician found another disconnect to use that has a neutral block installed, so my original question is moot now. Good and informative discussion, though. Thanks!

 

[jap]

I was out of pocket yesterday and didn't have a chance to jump back in to the conversation. In the end, the electrician found another disconnect to use that has a neutral block installed, so my original question is moot now. Good and informative discussion, though. Thanks!

Good for him and You.

 

[RichB]

Everyones talking like the disconnects are existing or that someone else is providing them.
Generally I purchase all the disconnects for my projects so its my choice to install the neutral block or not.

If a black wire is passing through the disconnect,how do I know its a neutral? unless I open take the panel cover off or look inside the transformer and see where it goes.
Especially if its #4 or larger and the conductor is black. Of course I would expect it to be, but since it isnt termated in the disconnet, and more than likely not phase taped as it passes through the disconnect, it could just as well be an Isolated Ground wire coming from a ground lug in the Transformer and you would not be taking readings from a true neutral at all.

true--I should have specified that we ALWAYS phased our conductors at each termination point and in situations where there could be confusion (like the above)--and we ALWAYS used Red-Blue-Black for 120/208 and Brown-Orange-Yellow for 480/277--green was EGC or GEC and white or grey for neutral depending on system voltage.

 

[sparkyrick]

Compliant.

I second that.

Roger

Compliant? Yes. Standard practice? No. Just kind of odd and not what you would expect to see.

I'm betting the installer had a disconnect without a neutral bar they were trying to get rid of.

 

[Cavie]

Thanks for the reply. I think I want to avoid pulling the neutral through. I've not seen that done before, and I didn't seem kosher to me.

Please explain why you don't think it's kosher??? code reference?? or personal code???