Bonding a water??

[gomezbrotherhood]

Recently, was working in the city of long beach. Where i failed inspection due to an inspector who told me I had to bond, a 120v 20 gallon water heater to cold water, on top of already having an equipment ground never have heard of the need to do this..:dunce:

 

[kwired]

More details would be helpful, as well as any local rules that vary from NEC.

In general NEC requires metallic water piping systems to be bonded to the electrical system. However there is sometimes debate as to how much metal piping there needs to be before we have a metallic piping system and the way it is worded leaves it somewhat open to interpretation.

When such piping systems are required to be bonded you must also bond around insulating portions of the system - one common point is where dielecric unions are used on the hot and cold water inlet/outlet of the water heater tank - we would need to bond between the two pipes to ensure continuity between them, but nothing requires a bonding jumper between the piping and the water tank. The tank should be already bonded by the equipment grounding conductor associated with the water heater supply circuit regardless of what kind of water piping is used.

 

[iwire]

Recently, was working in the city of long beach. Where i failed inspection due to an inspector who told me I had to bond, a 120v 20 gallon water heater to cold water, on top of already having an equipment ground never have heard of the need to do this..:dunce:

The equipment grounding conductor has nothing to do with the bond.

The inspector is just looking for a bonding jumper between the hot and cold pipes to ensure electrical continuity of the water pipes.

It's one of those things that is easier to do than fight with the inspector over it really being required or not.

 

[electricalist]

Would the cold water bond need to be within the first 5' it enters the structure?

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[infinity]

The equipment grounding conductor has nothing to do with the bond.

The inspector is just looking for a bonding jumper between the hot and cold pipes to ensure electrical continuity of the water pipes.

It's one of those things that is easier to do than fight with the inspector over it really being required or not.

Inspectors around here have forever required the bonding jumper on the HWH and not rely on plumbing mixing vales to connect the two together. The CMP is poised to rejected a proposal for the 2017 NEC based on the reliability of plumbing parts.

Public Input No. 4314-NFPA 70-2014 [ Section No. 250.104(A)(1) ]
(1) General.
Metal water piping system(s) installed in or attached to a building or structure shall be bonded to the service
equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductor where of
sufficient size, or to the one or more grounding electrodes used. The bonding jumper(s) shall be sized in
accordance with Table 250.66 except as permitted in 250.104(A)(2) and (A)(3). Bonding jumpers shall
not be required between the hot and cold water piping systems at hot water heaters to maintain the
continuity of the piping system.
Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input
Substantiation: There seems to be some confusion as to when applying 250.104(A)(1) that a hot water heater
requires that the continuity between the hot and cold piping be maintained by the use of a bonding jumper, similar
to the ones required by 250.68(B) around water meters, etc. Sections 250.104(A)(1) and 250.68(B) are different in
that bonding jumpers required by 250.68(B) are to maintain the continuity of grounding electrode, the same
continuity requirement does not apply to the bonding of piping systems. This additional wording will clarify that
bonding jumpers are not required around hot water heaters to comply with 250.104(A)(1).
Submitter Information Verification
Submitter Full Name:robert meier
Organization: NA
Street Address:
City:
State:
Zip:
Submittal Date: Thu Nov 06 19:02:22 EST 2014
Committee Statement
Resolution: Plumbing fittings and fixtures may not always provide reliable bonding between hot and cold water
lines.
National Fire Protection Association Report

 

[iwire]

Committee Statement
Resolution: Plumbing fittings and fixtures may not always provide reliable bonding between hot and cold water
lines.

Which of course means we must bond around every single one of those items.

 

[kwired]

Which of course means we must bond around every single one of those items.

Kind of my thoughts as well.

You also can't "what if" proof everything in the water piping as someone will still find something to repair/change someday that was never considered.

 

[electricalist]

Water makes a good bonding jumper

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[tom baker]

Water makes a good bonding jumper

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No it does not. Tap water is not conductive. If the subject of "water and electricity don't mix" come up at one of Mike Holts seminars, he will take a plug strip and put it in a picture of water, then drink from it. See photos attached.

 

[infinity]

Installing a jumper between the hot and cold water piping systems at the HWH ensures that both of these separate systems are bonded together even if the mixing valves are all plastic. Although many here have opined that it's not required we've been installing them here for decades, well that is if you want to pass the inspection. :roll:

 

[electricalist]

Im an idiot. I cut a cord in half, put the hot in water then checked for v from neutral to water and nothin.

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[romex jockey]

Water Bond....

Water Bond....

680.26(C) Pool Water. Where none of the bonded parts is in
direct connection with the pool water, the pool water shall
be in direct contact with an approved corrosion-resistant
conductive surface that exposes not less than 5800 mm
2
(9 in?) of surface area to the pool water at all times. The
conductive surface shall be located where it is not exposed
to physical damage or dislodgement during usual pool ac-
tivities, and it shall be bonded in accordance with
680.26(B).

My supplier informs me there's a new product on the market for this

anyone care to opine?

~RJ~

 

[ActionDave]

Im an idiot. I cut a cord in half, put the hot in water then checked for v from neutral to water and nothin.

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Check it with your tongue.

 

[kwired]

Tap water may have enough dissolved minerals in it that it has some conductivity so don't go trusting it to be great insulator either, but that conductivity is not enough to take place of bonding jumper where low resistance is desired.

 

[DrSparks]

Inspectors around here have forever required the bonding jumper on the HWH and not rely on plumbing mixing vales to connect the two together. The CMP is poised to rejected a proposal for the 2017 NEC based on the reliability of plumbing parts.

Unless the WH has a copper bypass manifold, then bonding would not be required.

 

[infinity]

Unless the WH has a copper bypass manifold, then bonding would not be required.

Can you elaborate further?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Im an idiot. I cut a cord in half, put the hot in water then checked for v from neutral to water and nothin.

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I did a similar experiment with a socket attached to a 2 wire lamp cord that was plugged into a gfci and put in a bucket of water. It did not trip the gfci and when I put my hand in the bucket nothing changed.

I will add that when I took an equipment grounding conductor and put it in the water then the gfci did trip. Seems like there is some conductivity in water and of course, the conductivity depends on the amount of minerals in the water. I do agree water is a bad conductor unless it is salt water. :lol:

 

[kwired]

And salt water is not an ideal conductor either, but is conductive enough to easily carry enough current to have lethal impact to humans @ 120 volts supply.

 

[iwire]

I think the key point to keep in mind is that it does not take a good conductor to kill you.

 

[kwired]

I think the key point to keep in mind is that it does not take a good conductor to kill you.

And in many cases it is the poor conductor that does, the fault to a good conductor that is solidly bonded to the fault return path ends up opening the overcurrent protective device and eliminating the hazard. Hey that is what equipment grounding is all about