Combo A/C disconnect and GFI

[Rickmar]

How are the Combo 60 amp 220 volt pull out non fused a/c disconnects with the built in GFI?
Is the GFI they give you tamper and weather resistant?
Any issues running a 12-4 romex to this combo device? I believe the 12-4 romex has a white with a red stripe.
Any pushback from inspectors?
No bubble cover on this unit but it would still be considered extra hard duty with the metal cover?
I would use these for the mini split systems to make my life easier.

Thanks,
Rick

 

[peter d]

No reason to run a 12/4, just use a phase conductor that serves the a/c unit. These disconnects have a TR/WR receptacle installed.

 

[jap]

No reason to run a 12/4, just use a phase conductor that serves the a/c unit. These disconnects have a TR/WR receptacle installed.

Yea do that.
Those 60 amp protected GFI Outlets never trip....

JAP>

 

[peter d]

Yea do that.
Those 60 amp protected GFI Outlets never trip....

JAP>

Uh, #12 wire implies a 20 amp circuit. :huh:

 

[iwire]

Uh, #12 wire implies a 20 amp circuit. :huh:

Uh, it's an HVAC unit, #12 wire could be protected by a larger breaker.

 

[peter d]

Uh, it's an HVAC unit, #12 wire could be protected by a larger breaker.

I'm aware of that possibility. This isn't my first rodeo. :roll:

 

[augie47]

The ones I commonly see here (below) have a the metal cover and the cut sheet states they meet the 406.9 requirement.. Normally the E./Cs here simply bring a general purpose branch circuit into the enclosure along with the HVAC circuit.

 

[iwire]

I'm aware of that possibility. This isn't my first rodeo. :roll:

Uh, than why did you say that?

 

[peter d]

Uh, than why did you say that?

Because the vast majority of electricians I see have this inordinate fear of protecting #12 above 20 amps, even when allowed for motor loads. In fact, I think I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen it done in a residential setting. I'm just going with the conventional trade wisdom that #12 = 20 amps.


Although if you used the same disconnect on a 40 amp circuit, how is it any different when the a/c guys plug their "cheater cord" onto the 40 amp protected conductors to run their vacuum pump?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I always run a different circuit for the receptacle. There can be issues with using one leg

210.23 (A) (2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The totalrating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than
luminaires, shall not exceed 50 percent of the branchcircuit
ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plugconnected
utilization equipment not fastened in place, or
both, are also supplied.

 

[1964element]

Yea One leg and neutral to ground.
Seen it more then once.

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

 

[don_resqcapt19]

There is no requirement for that receptacle to be tamper resistant. The tamper resistant rule in 406.12(A) only applies to receptacles that are required by 210.52. The receptacle at the AC equipment is required by 210.63.

 

[infinity]

You could run a 12/4 bu then you may have a derating issue with the 4 CCC's.

 

[Rickmar]

There is no requirement for that receptacle to be tamper resistant. The tamper resistant rule in 406.12(A) only applies to receptacles that are required by 210.52. The receptacle at the AC equipment is required by 210.63.

Even though it is a 210.63 code, isn't still an outdoor receptacle governed by 210.52??

 

[jumper]

Even though it is a 210.63 code, isn't still an outdoor receptacle governed by 210.52??

No and TR areas are specified 406.12. Don stated this earlier.

406.12 Tamper-Resistant Receptacles.
Tamper-resistant
receptacles shall be installed as specified in 406.12(A)
through (C).
(A) Dwelling Units.
In all areas specified in 210.52, all
nonlocking-type 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles
shall be listed tamper-resistant receptacles

 

[Rickmar]

You could run a 12/4 bu then you may have a derating issue with the 4 CCC's.

Good point about the deration. It would be up to the AHJ to determine if the two wires to the GFI are really current carrying conductors because the only time the GFI should be used is to when a service tech plugs a light or vacuum pump into it?? This is for the combo units. I guess a homeowner could open up the cover of a disconnect to keep something else plugged into it.

 

[jumper]

It would be up to the AHJ to determine if the two wires to the GFI are really current carrying conductors .

The neutral/grounded conductor in a 2 wire 120V circuit is always going to be a CCC.

 

[infinity]

Good point about the deration. It would be up to the AHJ to determine if the two wires to the GFI are really current carrying conductors because the only time the GFI should be used is to when a service tech plugs a light or vacuum pump into it?? This is for the combo units. I guess a homeowner could open up the cover of a disconnect to keep something else plugged into it.

Unless the disconnect were designed so that you could not have simultaneous use of both circuits you're out of luck. It's 4 CCC's so you may need to size your 4-wire cable accordingly.

 

[kwired]

Even though it is a 210.63 code, isn't still an outdoor receptacle governed by 210.52??

This receptacle could possibly fulfill both 210.63 and 210.52, then it would need to be TR. TR also wouldn't be required for non dwellings, yet I'm guessing most of these available are TR/WR so you either use them or you don't - doesn't violate anything to use TR where it is not required.


As far as 20 amps circuit - I believe OP mentioned a mini-split system. Bulk of those systems are only 15 or 20 amp MOCPD units and no additional OCPD would be needed if you had tapped this receptacle from the supply circuit.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So what about derating. It is a non issue since there are only 4 current carrying conductor.