440v motor on 480v supply

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RumRunner

Senior Member
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SCV Ca, USA
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Retired EE
I didn't say it was.

Regardless, my point was clearly about insisting on correcting someone's terms.

I don't say luminaire, either.


Not everyone is rubbing elbows with academics. You are negating your statement when you say "chalk it up" to colloquialism. . .and now you are saying feel free because everyone knows it.

What grates in my ears is when you say "stop correcting".
Well. . . who are you?
 

RumRunner

Senior Member
Location
SCV Ca, USA
Occupation
Retired EE
(SLAP)
Well I have been put in my place. I don't recall the last time I was accused of being "vulgar" - "uncouth" regularly, but not vulgar.

I promise I will henceforth no longer use kBTUs/hour (apparent) to rate transformers. Moving forward, I will use kJoules/second (apparent)

And in the interest of harmony, I will no longer use gallons/mile for fuel consumption. I will now use mm^2 per 100,000.

Without accusing you of any in-appropriate, colloquialism, shouldn't that have been "metre"

the worm
(turneth - and begins to dig


When you are a "broomie" a resident of Birmingham, England, you say metre.. . when you are in the Bronx, you say meter.

Bronx - liter
Broomie- litre

Bronx-theater
Broomie-theatre

Bronx- center
Broomie- centre
 

iceworm

Curmudgeon still using printed IEEE Color Books
Location
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Okay, now that does sound like an in-appropriate, colloquialism and the examples you give sound no different than:
Birmingham - SI
Seattle - Metric
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
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Electrical Engineer
Interesting. But IEC? The IEC would suggest for the European market but Europe is 50Hz and 400V.
I don't know any country that is 440V, 60Hz.

UK used to be 440V/250V but never 60Hz.

A puzzler

It’s not uncommon for motor manufacturers, especially Asian ones, to re-label their IEC 50Hz motors for dale here by simply putting our equivalent voltages as they would apply at 60 Hz. Unfortunately many of them misinterpret our standards because they read old literature or just ask someone else who doesn’t really know. 440V has not been a standard here for multiple decades, yet that idea persists.
 

Besoeker3

Senior Member
Location
UK
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
Using SI is appropriate term and it is not colloquialism.

Metric is not often used in academia like it used to.

Although some consider colloquialism as a style. . . it is considered vulgar or incorrect. . . which SI is not.

Metric has been abrogated. . . it is an old school legacy.

The base unit of meter that defines unit of length is the coherent unit of volume.

In the context of wood (for firewood)-- metric-- the volume is referred to as: a cord of wood.

You may still keep it alive (metric) if you live in the boondocks where you purchase and use wood for cooking and heating.

SI is now the mainstream. . . in science and it is not colloquial.

And I agree with Bes, it is a YES for SI


It also means YES in Spanish.

Thank you, kindly!
 

MAC702

Senior Member
Location
Clark County, NV
Not everyone is rubbing elbows with academics. You are negating your statement when you say "chalk it up" to colloquialism. . .and now you are saying feel free because everyone knows it.

What grates in my ears is when you say "stop correcting".
Well. . . who are you?
I think you misread my post, sir. I said feel free to chalk up the word "metric" to colloquialism or jargon, not the initialism "SI." In other words, everyone knew what was meant, and there was no need to "correct" someone for using a term everyone understood. Feel free to use the technically correct foreign initialism yourself, and others will use the term with which they are more accustomed. NO ONE IS WRONG. I learned both terms in school, and use both terms. We are allowed to be less technical. There are so many things worth correcting, and that's not one of them, especially when every opportunity is taken by some to be smug by "correcting" it.

Geez, even the American code book uses "metric designator" v "trade size". Let's get the errata sheet going. Let's be sure to correct everyone, every time, that says "fixture" even though we all know what they mean, and many people say it.

On topic, we've now established not to use a "110 V" motor on a nominal 120 V supply?
 

retirede

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
It’s not uncommon for motor manufacturers, especially Asian ones, to re-label their IEC 50Hz motors for dale here by simply putting our equivalent voltages as they would apply at 60 Hz. Unfortunately many of them misinterpret our standards because they read old literature or just ask someone else who doesn’t really know. 440V has not been a standard here for multiple decades, yet that idea persists.

My thoughts exactly. If the person in China responsible for translating the nameplate was aware of how motors are really labeled here, he would have put 460 on the nameplate. Same hardware inside!
 

Besoeker3

Senior Member
Location
UK
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
On topic, we've now established not to use a "110 V" motor on a nominal 120 V supply?
Have we?
I've simply stated my view. I would not connect a motor to a supply voltage that was outside the tolerance limits set by the manufacturer.
 

Besoeker3

Senior Member
Location
UK
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
My thoughts exactly. If the person in China responsible for translating the nameplate was aware of how motors are really labeled here, he would have put 460 on the nameplate. Same hardware inside!
I think Westinghouse/TECO would be aware.
 

RumRunner

Senior Member
Location
SCV Ca, USA
Occupation
Retired EE
The comment I posted was in response to the topic. See post #44.
How could that be off topic.?

What I've said was about SI vs Metric. All throughout this discussion, the reference to SI and Metric were carried through.
Sure there will be some words to prove one's point that doesn't make the other person comfortable.. .especialy if the upper hand seems elusive.

There are lessons that can be learned in the midst of all this.

If that is how you see it being "off-topic", then you should delete all posts that have semblance from other members that pertain to what I said.

I have copy of my posted comment. . . I will take this up further if I have to.

Why would correcting a "wrong" be off limit and allow that wrong to continue.

Can you please explain that?
 

iceworm

Curmudgeon still using printed IEEE Color Books
Location
North of the 65 parallel
Occupation
EE (Field - as little design as possible)
Girls -
It's time to let this go.
Post 25 was an engineering/math joke about units - not a slap at SI.
Similar to suggesting fuel consumption be measured in square millimeters/100

To make my position clear:
In the interest of the OP, I standby my post 23, including the rewrites from Jraef in post 34.

Run the motor. See how hot it gets. Nothing to lose.
 
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Besoeker3

Senior Member
Location
UK
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
Run the motor. See how hot it gets. Nothing to lose.
Downtime if/when the motor fails. I commented on that earlier in this thread.
The exchange rate at the time would have made it over $10k per hour.
Get the right motor for the job!!
 
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iceworm

Curmudgeon still using printed IEEE Color Books
Location
North of the 65 parallel
Occupation
EE (Field - as little design as possible)
Downtime if/when the motor fails. I commented on that earlier in this thread.
The exchange rate at the time would have made it over $10k per hour.
Get the right motor for the job!!
Yes, you did, in fact, quote a sign at a facility that has nothing to do with the client. (Unless you have a secret decoder ring shared with the OP.)

As I commented earlier in this thread, if it trips the 115% overload, get looking for a new motor/transformer.
My guess is the client is trying to save a few dollars - there is no sin there.

If so (adding to post 23):
If the motor is not heavily loaded and doesn't run hot - it will be fine. Run it.
If the motor does run hot - get a new one ordered. The existing motor is not worth much. Run to failure is not a bad option. I would keep the overloads set down (115%)
Unless, the motor does run hot enough to sizzle when you spit on it: Yeah, definitely get a new motor ordered. Seriously consider a 1.15SF.​
 

Besoeker3

Senior Member
Location
UK
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
Yes, you did, in fact, quote a sign at a facility that has nothing to do with the client. (Unless you have a secret decoder ring shared with the OP.)
I'm simply suggesting that there could be a cost the user might face by using an unsuitable motor operating outside the nameplate limits. A cost that could potentially be far greater than purchasing the correct motor for the application.
 

ActionDave

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Licensed Electrician
I agree with the worm. I'd run the motor and see what happens next. The worst thing that could happen is the motor burns up and it causes the plant shut down two weeks before Christmas, everyone gets laid off, the local economy craters and nobody gets presents which causes emotional scaring in one of the children who becomes a serial killer as an adult, but by then no one will remember the motor had anything to do with it.
 

Jraef

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Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
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Electrical Engineer
That’s why I said they should immediately buy the replacement motor now, so that it can be swapped out quickly when this one bites it. Lord knows we have enough serial killers and mass shooters already...

By the way, the 110V analogy is not equivalent. Old motors built as 110V we’re still built to (what became) NEMA standards, so their tolerance for 120V is not generally an issue. But THIS motor was obviously NOT built to NEMA standards, it was designed by someone who either had no idea what NEMA standard voltage ratings are, or knew and didn’t care. Either way, I would not trust it to survive for long.

And given the time it might take to get a metric motor here (or modify the machine to accept a NEMA motor), the lost production time waiting to get this machine running the first time is also a factor. So again, it’s ALREADY installed; get what you can out of it and be prepared for the eventuality of failure.
 
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